Scottish Leagues For Next Season

[Beanie]

Aye Para...the question over how well Strachan will do is a good one.

He could well have a reported 15m available to spend in the summer...anyone know how wisely he spent a budget while at Southampton(list of signings or something would be useful.)

Been reading tonight about the situation at Killie...any fans got a view on next season.

From what I've read I think they could struggle next term, as it seems they would have been right in the mire had Chairman Jamie Moffat not bailed them out to the tune of over a million pounds.

That suggests that with a new chairman in, and one who is unlikely to bankroll an overspending team, that they will need to sell players(Boyd possibly moving on) or cut their cloth to survive. They have an initial investment secured, but at the moment it seems Killie are badly overspending, so losing some big earners might well be a foregone conclusion if all that is true, and possible relegation danger?

:think

[kompressaur]

Good read chaps This is from www.killiefc.com

illie fans were left in a tizzy last night as the press corps were alerted to a conference today at Rugby Park which was to herald an important announcement regards the future of the club. Newspapers the country over are carrying different takes on the situation, but like us for the most part they can only surmise what is going down based on the few facts they do know.

From what we can gather it seems as if the club's main debtor, HBOS, were going to pull the rug from under our feet on Monday night but have been placated by club owner Jamie Moffat. The details of the 'last gasp rescue package' have been sketchy to say the least but we would imagine they will be revealed at the press conference later this morning.

It seems that part of the package is vice-chairman Michael Johnson taking over from his good friend Moffat with the latter relinquishing his shares and any interest his family had in the club to the Troon lawyer. Quite how that would placate the bank is a mystery to us...we are under the assumption that for Jamie Moffat to walk away he would at least have to make good his personal guarantees to the bank which are estimated to be around £1.5M. If Moffat has done so then the bank would have no other option than to allow him to walk away.

So where will that leave the club? If the Moffat family are no longer involved and Michael Johnson takes over as chairman then surely the writing is on the cards? The bank have only stood back and watched us get up to our eyeballs in debt because they assumed we had the Moffat millions to bail us out, should he now leave with no apparent 'white knight' on the horizon, how long will it be before they come calling again looking for their money back and what would someone like Michael Johnson, second-in-command at the moment, be able to do to turn the financial tide?

The answers to that seem to be staring us in the face. He could sell or lease out The Park Hotel. Sell star player Kris Boyd which could pay some wages over the summer...but these are only temporary solutions. We can only sell the hotel once and we cannot depend on selling on hand-reared talent if we are nipping the Youth Development Programme in the bud. (Whatever happened to the Youth Trust that the club set up?) The future looks bleak and we can only cross our fingers and hope that the papers have got it all wrong...it wouldn't be the first time they had but something tells that there is no good news on the horizon. We will try and keep you posted.

[Beanie]

Hadn't seen that Komp, but its an interesting read.

Livingston found out to their cost that HBOS have lost patience with SPL clubs running up huge overdrafts with very little intention of repaying them anytime soon, and having had Dunfermline and Dundee in their sights recently, it now looks like Killie's turn.

If all these reports are true, then the sale of Boyd or of the hotel as mentioned in the article would be the short term measures to give them some room for manouvre, but surely it would all require a wholescale restructuring of the playing staff for next season. If as noted the youth programme is giving very few good products, then it will have to be some low wage signings in the summer, with the pick of the players heading to the clubs offering higher wages, leaving clubs like Killie with the sloppy seconds.

:yikes

[GaNgStA kEeKs]

Killie are in talks with Phil McGuire of Aberdeen according to the very reliable local paper here. If they get him this would be a pretty good signing. I have never understood why Aberdeen are letting him go, although im sure its due to him being on too much, he has been a conisistent player and played well in every opportunity he has been giving this season. Also had offers from America, and some lower English league teams.

As for the Strachan issue - i believe he will do a decent job for Celtic. Ive always liked him and how outspoken he is. In regards to new signings - some off the top of my head he has signed have been Hartson, Bellamy, Niemi - He seems to be capable of making pretty good signings. Only problem is they arent as successful in a poor team compared to how they would have been in one of the top teams.

Sky Sports News are questioning the Anti Niemi's agent right now as he has been linked with Celtic - this would be a great signing if they can pull it off.

[Parahandy]

Sky Sports News are questioning the Anti Niemi's agent right now as he has been linked with Celtic - this would be a great signing if they can pull it off.

Niemi was in great form for a long time at Southampton but did he not have a couple of nightmare matches towards the end of the season? No doubt Celtic certainly need an experienced, reliable goalkeeper. The fact Niemi played for Rangers wouldn't be a big deal as he was rarely in the first team at Ibrox. Could be a good signing if it comes off.

Seems the wee man doesn't get on with Bellamy so we've got to assume he's a cert to leave now. That will give the Board the excuse they need to avoid having to fund a megabucks deal for the player. The biscuit tin mentality has never really left Parkhead and the powerbrokers only ever dig deep as a last resort. The downward trend since Seville is the direct result of a lack of investment on the playing side and now major surgery is needed, though the cost will be offset by the inevitable sale of some players.

Beanie, I realise he's no track record in management but what's your early thoughts on Paul Lambert taking over from Richard Gough?

[Beanie]

Originally Posted by Parahandy

Beanie, I realise he's no track record in management but what's your early thoughts on Paul Lambert taking over from Richard Gough?

I think its a positive move.

Gough clearly had delusions about what its like to be a manager at a small club - his time being pampered as a Rangers star, with trophy after trophy, seems to have spoilt him on and off the pitch, and he never seemed to fit in at Livi. Credit where its due, he kept us up, and after a shaky start began to show a bit more tactical promise, but there's little love lost between Livi and Gough - the fact that he left citing personal reasons only to then apply for the Dundee United job sums it up.

So the difference with Lambert should be that he is a lot more grounded, which is surely essential for a team like Livingston. But for the odd season, we're unlikely to escape the bottom 6/relegation trouble on a regular basis, and aslong as Lambert understands that, and how to work to a strict budget, then thats a good start. The fact that he's taken the time to earn his badges and study the game gives an indication that this isn't something that simply takes his fancy for a year or two, which was always the impression Gough gave, but the start of a career.

So the feeling around the club is certainly very positive, and it might even be worth mentioning that Chairman Pearse Flynn is a fairly huge Celtic fan, and so their working relationship should atleast be on better terms than he was with Gough.

Signings wise, he's in a decent position for negotiating a deal or two with Celtic as mentioned earlier in the thread, while Flynn will at the very least allow him to be competitive in the transfer market. I'd expect him to have a decent knowledge of the game in Scotland, and so should know a few of the decent players we might be after.

And most importantly, tactics wise...who knows?

As noted he's got all his badges, and an experienced assistant in Norrie McWhirter, but its difficult to know how that will all come together. For all the reasons above though, he has every chance.

[Parahandy]

Interesting thoughts Beanie. I think as you say a manager being grounded as opposed to the (outwardly at any rate) aloof manner of Gough can only be a good thing for any team. PL will have a better knowledge of the game here and no shortage of contacts which must be another positive to weigh against his inexperience.

It will be very interesting to see how things shape up in the coming months.

[zonker84]

Any thoughts on this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot..._1/4587991.stm ?


I'm not sure it's a good idea with so few teams in each division

[kompressaur]

I think it sounds horrendous Zonker. I like 2 up 2 down and also for them to open up the bottom slot in Div 3 for either/and/or Juniors and Teams Like Edinburgh City,

Reading St Johnstone have got Neil Janczyk from Hearts.
http://www.stjohnstonefc.co.uk/newsitem.asp?NewsID=1309

It could finally be St Johnstones year with Coyle already bringing in Falkirk central defenders Kevin James and Mark Campbell. 2 solid players for Falkirk last year and i dont think Dalkirk were quite the same when James was out injured. Steven Dobbie has signed now after a loan spell from Hibs since January.

Here's what we're waiting for

Saturday 30th July.
Bell's Cup first-round draw

Raith Rovers v Elgin City
Peterhead v Berwick Rangers
Brechin City v Clyde
Morton v Gretna
Ayr United v Stirling Albion
Dundee v East Stirlingshire
Ross County v Montrose
Arbroath v Stranraer
St Johnstone v Alloa Athletic
East Fife v Stenhousemuir
St Mirren v Forfar Athletic
Queen's Park v Hamilton Academical
Partick Thistle v Cowdenbeath
Queen of the South v Albion Rovers


Morton v Gretna - what a game to kick us off. Possible minefield but great just to even consider.

From memory these teams met in the cup last year
St Johnstone v Alloa Athletic
St Mirren v Forfar Athletic
Partick Thistle v Cowdenbeath

Reading also that Gavin Swankie isnt expected to sign a new contract for Arbroath. that will be a boot in the balls for them if he dont.

[Parahandy]

There were playoffs a number of years ago but I'm sure there was only one involving the 2nd top team in Division 1 playing off home and away against the 2nd bottom in the SPL, with the SPL club at home in the 2nd leg. They didn't last long though. I remember Aberdeen were involved against Dunfermlinewith the Dons winning to survive in the SPL.

I don't agree with them, though they do generate a lot of money in England. As has been mentioned, the size of the Scottish leagues isn't suited to this. I like komp's thoughts about a way in to Divsion 3 for a non league club, with the bottom club dropping out. Bet the bookies would be glad to see the back of the Shire. The only problem I can see is that non league football in Scotland is zoned and the team dropping out would need to be accommodated in a local league. Suppose that's no big deal.

Read today that moves are well underway to have the top Junior teams from the main leagues competing in the Qualifying rounds of the Scottish Cup. I'm all for that. There is opposition from the Highland league and some Division 3 clubs who fear their chances of an early exit would increase.

[zonker84]

With 10 teams in a league, don't see how play-offs with teams down to 4th place are right. The system in Scotland, certainly in the lower leagues, works well and there's no need to change it. Possibly this season in Division 3 has lead to this change, as by January it was all over with the 2 promoted teams as good as decided and no one going down.

There probably should be relegation from Division 3, but you have to make sure that the team coming up can cope, financially more than anything.

We'll see how it works out, but the Scottish leagues just need to pick a format and stick to it. First impressions though are this play-off system isn't good

[Parahandy]

There probably should be relegation from Division 3, but you have to make sure that the team coming up can cope, financially more than anything.

Don't see that as a problem as the attendances in Divsion 3 generally only number a few hundred, sometimes as low as 200/300. Plenty of non league clubs can better this. Don't know what the average figure is now but in years gone by Pollok Juniors, who play in the south side of Glasgow, regularly had gates of over 1000.

I'm sure some of the big Ayrshire Junior teams could match Divison 3 gates too. Even this year's champions Gretna have relatively very low attendances.

[zonker84]

Oh yeah I know, just mean from the point of view of having to travel all over the country instead of just more locally as well. Clearly there isn't massive money in the game at this level, but even so, some clubs would be more unstable financially than others.


I've always though that the Scottish Football League as a bit of a closed shop. Yes, they've let the odd team join over the years, but not always the team that has won the Highland League or the East of Scotland League. It has been based on facilities and so on. Promotion should always be on sporting merit.

Relegation would be a good thing though. I'd only have one going down, but it might give the likes of East Stirling more reason to improve. At the moment, failure is OK, as clubs aren't losing anything by finishing bottom. That can't be good for the league.

I don't see automatic relegation happening in the near future though

[stevenc1]

Originally Posted by kompressaur

I think it sounds horrendous Zonker. I like 2 up 2 down and also for them to open up the bottom slot in Div 3 for either/and/or Juniors and Teams Like Edinburgh City,

Reading St Johnstone have got Neil Janczyk from Hearts.
http://www.stjohnstonefc.co.uk/newsitem.asp?NewsID=1309

It could finally be St Johnstones year with Coyle already bringing in Falkirk central defenders Kevin James and Mark Campbell. 2 solid players for Falkirk last year and i dont think Dalkirk were quite the same when James was out injured. Steven Dobbie has signed now after a loan spell from Hibs since January.

Here's what we're waiting for

Saturday 30th July.
Bell's Cup first-round draw

Raith Rovers v Elgin City
Peterhead v Berwick Rangers
Brechin City v Clyde
Morton v Gretna
Ayr United v Stirling Albion
Dundee v East Stirlingshire
Ross County v Montrose
Arbroath v Stranraer
St Johnstone v Alloa Athletic
East Fife v Stenhousemuir
St Mirren v Forfar Athletic
Queen's Park v Hamilton Academical
Partick Thistle v Cowdenbeath
Queen of the South v Albion Rovers


Morton v Gretna - what a game to kick us off. Possible minefield but great just to even consider.

From memory these teams met in the cup last year
St Johnstone v Alloa Athletic
St Mirren v Forfar Athletic
Partick Thistle v Cowdenbeath

Reading also that Gavin Swankie isnt expected to sign a new contract for Arbroath. that will be a boot in the balls for them if he dont.

Dumbarton got a bye into the second round Think this is about the 3rd time in 5 years
Still won't win it though...:down

(Btw, Airdrie also got a bye).

[Beanie]

A couple of problems with the relegation from Div 3 issue:

First - below the third there is no pyramid structure, rather just a jumble of all the various junior and amatuer teams split into regions as Parahandy noted - without large scale restructuring there are few ways that admission to the Third could be earnt, and the only feasible way to determine it would be through applications considered by the SFL.

Second, a great number of junior clubs etc have no desire to play in the Third division. A lot of them are doing fine attendances wise exactly where they are, and at junior level spliot by regions long travelling distances aren't as common as they are for 3rd Division clubs. A lot would much prefer the local derbies and security the junior leagues offer.

So I can't see relegation in the forseeable future...and the measure mentioned at the bottom of the BBC article is a bit of a vague way to stall over anything definite.

I too think it would be good to have in the future.