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Old 09-07-2007, 18:25
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India in England

Tour Match: England Lions v Indians at Chelmsford - Jul 13-15, 2007

1st Test: England v India at Lord's - Jul 19-23, 2007

2nd Test: England v India at Nottingham - Jul 27-31, 2007

Tour Match: Indians v Sri Lanka A at Leicester - Aug 3-5, 2007

3rd Test: England v India at The Oval - Aug 9-13, 2007

Only ODI: Scotland v India at Glasgow - Aug 16, 2007

Tour Match: England Lions v Indians at Northampton - Aug 18, 2007

1st ODI: England v India at Southampton - Aug 21, 2007

2nd ODI: England v India at Bristol - Aug 24, 2007

3rd ODI: England v India at Birmingham - Aug 27, 2007

4th ODI: England v India at Manchester - Aug 30, 2007

5th ODI: England v India at Leeds - Sep 2, 2007

6th ODI: England v India at The Oval - Sep 5, 2007

7th ODI: England v India at Lord's - Sep 8, 2007

Test series starts a week on thursday followed by 49 ODIs Just starting to jot a few thoughts down really. Straussy leads the 'Lions' down at Chelmsford this wednesday in Indias final warm up match.
First thoughts are that everywhers still very wet & we're only 10 days away, & that fact alone has to point to England.
Secondly, I've been through the squad but have yet to find a suitable list to c&p onto here, but my reckoning is that 7 tourists have played in England before: Dravid, Tendulkar, Ganguly, Laxman, Jaffer, Kumble & Khan. Thats the bulk of the batting then, with likely only Karthik, Yuvraj & Dhoni as newcomers in the top 7, but the bowling will be pretty inexperienced with Zaheer & Kumble attempting to hold the rookies together. I certainly think that Munaf Patels left armers would have been handy. Theres a newcomer called Bosr whose strike rate is superb but hes 28 not sure what to make of that tbh.

More to follow
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Old 09-07-2007, 23:28
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Re: India in England

Indias record in England is:

won 4, lost 23, drawn 18

These are the wins:
1 Eng 355 108.4 - L 3rd Test v Eng in Eng 1971 at The Oval [692]
2 Ind 284 117.3 - W
3 Eng 101 45.1 - L
4 Ind 174/6 101 173 W
1 Eng 294 128.2 - L 1st Test v Eng in Eng 1986 at Lord's [1046]
2 Ind 341 137 - W
3 Eng 180 96.4 - L
4 Ind 136/5 42 134 W
1 Ind 272 104.2 - W 2nd Test v Eng in Eng 1986 at Leeds [1047]
2 Eng 102 45.1 - L
3 Ind 237 76.3 - W
4 Eng 128 63.3 408 L
1 Ind 628/8d 180.1 - W 3rd Test v Eng in Eng 2002 at Leeds [1613]
2 Eng 273 89 - L
3 Eng 309 110.5 - L

The fact that 2 are at Headingley doesnt exactly help my 'English conditions' argument
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Old 11-07-2007, 11:28
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Re: India in England

Im not convinced by England at the moment, Missing Flintoff is a big thing. Seems to be a lack of confidence amongst the squad aswell.

India's chances will most probably revolve around skipper Dravid, who batted for 30 hours in the last test series in England. He'll provide the platform for the attacking batsmen to play their game.

Test Series : Draw
ODI Series : India win

Key men
England : A.Cook
India : R.Dravid
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Old 13-07-2007, 02:40
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Re: India in England

Be interesting to see how the Lions game goes starting today. And why is it not 4-day rather than 3-day?

Ravi Bopara is down to bat at 3. A good knock from this batting all-rounder may put pressure on Strauss/Bell. Yeah, unlikely.

India will be scratching their heads about their preferred opening partnership come Thursday.

Tests England 2-0
ODI series India 39-10
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Old 14-07-2007, 00:51
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Re: India in England

Lions v India live on TV here. Jeez, they'll have India in indoor nets live next.

Belter of a wkt at Chelmsford. Strauss looked totally out of sorts as usual but they'll stick with him I suppose. Likes Lords.

Shah, Bopara and Tim Ambrose missed out on making an impression. Indian bowling not up to much. Here's a quick run down if, like me, you don't know much about them.

Zaheer Khan
. Well-built left arm over merchant with a bit of zip. Not any better than Powell and Fidel. Over-pitched consistently and fed Denly's straight drives.

Seesanth. Young bling type who likes to get in batsman's face but has zero menace to back it up. Odd one nips back off seam to rt-hander.

Sharma. Military medium no-ball specialist. Not test standard.

Powar. Short, fat bloke who wears an Alice band . Second best spinner in all India? So it seems. Gives it lots of air and that's about it.


Suppose they'll bring in RP Singh and Kumble for Sharma and Powar for Lords, but the whole set-up looks less than frightening.

It seems to me that India have a hell of a middle order and, er, that's it.

Suupose Lions will declare overnight (100 overs max 1st innings anway). See if Broad can put the wind up them. Looks like Harmy out for Lords, otherwise England will go with the usual suspects.

I'll be considering test draws more closely than I usually do in the 4-test series starting Thursday.
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Old 16-07-2007, 01:13
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Re: India in England

Series starts thursday at Lords. Not had a major look around at odds yet but Stan James go:
Series: England Evs, Draw 2/1, India 11/4
1st Test: England 2/1, Draw 8/11, India 9/2

Betfair have the draw at only 1.7

This is going to take quite some thought, & the 1st test may come down to a leave alone or just in-running for me tbh. The draw was as short as that in the final test vs WIs & I layed it quite comfortably, but obviously India are likely to be a different animal entirely.

Weather at NW8 currently looks like this on Accuweather:
monday & tuesday: rain
wednesday: thunderstorms
thursday: ok but rain overnight
friday: ok
saturday: rain
sunday: thunderstorms
monday: ok

....so, we've likely got the age old problem that there might be only 300 or so overs which with it being India would immediately put you off a result...but the covers are likely to be on all week going into the test so it could well be a spicy track !! Also the fact that Lords drains superbly these days has to be taken into account, but on the other hand the amount of rain we're getting is virtually unprecedented in even an English summer, & it certainly hasnt happened since the new drainage was put in so its an unprecedented situation
So the long & short of it is I'm getting nowhere fast

Ok, lets look at the teams:
Strauss has got runs in the 2nd innings in the Lions match which makes certain his place, although that Chelmsford pitch was known to be as placid as fcuk going into the match & common sense says Lords will be very different. Flintoff is not ready to return yet & although Harmison is in the squad hes unlikely to be fit with his hernia problem, & it appears that England will play the existing 10 plus either Broad or Anderson, presumably depending on the hardness of the pitch on thursday morning.....if they think there'll be bounce then Broad will debut but if its softer & overcast then presumably the more skiddy Anderson will get the nod. This then, is how I see it:

Strauss, Cook, Vaughan, Pietersen, Collingwood, Bell, Prior, Broad, Sidebottom, Panesar, Hoggard

If you remember in the last test at Chester-le-Street, much was made of Harmison batting 8. Another reason why Broad is likely to get the nod in Harmys absence is that he can hold a bat as proven by his fifty in this Lions match, although as I said it was a placid pitch, which does though make his 5-for more impressive
Of the last 3 series India have played in England the score reads: Eng 3, India 1, drawn 6. One of the Englan wins was at Lords in 2002 where again there was no Harmison but Hoggard took 7-120. He again is the likely main threat here & of course he is backed up by the similar (but left arm) Sidebottom. Its interesting that the Lions fielded Broad & Tremlett & nobody similar to the first 2 mentioned.
I suppose that the other possible change is that if its really wet England may opt to play 2 of Harmison, Broad & Anderson & drop Panesar.....but I must admit I'd be surprised at that what with Monty being recognised as a match winner these days, together with having bowled decently in India last year.

Onto India, which is somewhat more complicated Obviously everybody knows about the ageing but powerful upper to middle order & I would suggest that the central axis of Dravid, Tendulkar & Ganguly is a given, although Ganguly is one of the few to have done nothing so far on this tour. The whole point though is one of experience of English conditions, & these 3 plus kumble have it in droves, making them certainties. This also means VVS Laxman will get his spot although the amount of times that I've read hes facing 'a make or break series' is laughable.....his record stands up & hes toured here before, making 43* & 74 in the Lords test of 2002, so thats 3-6 sorted. Personally I'm a fan of Yuvraj Singh but hes only played 19 tests over his career & he cant cement his place. I would pick him but by the sound of his interview after the Lions match he knows hes not making it, & the fact he played both warm up matches means the jurys out on him, & with scores of 31, 18. 59 & 6* he hasnt converted starts. I believe his best chance probably rests on Laxman having a poor first 2 tests or the openers having a nightmare start. He may also have had a chance if Dhoni didnt bat well vs the Lions but his 76 will secure his berth. Anybody thinking dropping Dhoni is absurd needs to realise that the reserve keeper is Karthik, who is inked in to open with tour scores of 76, 33, 5 & 51. Hes also scored 63, 38, 56. 22 & 129 since reclaiming his test place with all but the 38 made as opener.
The dodgier opener is Jaffer whose tour scores are only 12, 4, 1, & 22, but he has 2 tons in his last 3 tests although one was against Bangladesh who appear to be falling apart quicker than a labour manifesto, but this is tempered by the fact that he bagged a pair in the other Bangles encounter. In all, Karthik & Jaffer have opened together 5 times & have 2 stands of 150+, so they will start, particularly as Jaffers toured England before, although Gambhirs 81 vs Sussex means they'll be quietly looking over their shoulders.
I suppose Yuvraj does have a chance of playing if India opt for safety first & play 7 bats + Dhoni, but obviously this will mean only Khan + 1 seamer & Kumble with back up from Tendulkar & Ganguly. I'd find that doubtful but I wouldnt totally discount it as its a back to back test & India have lost the 1st test on all of the last 3 tours here, costing them the series twice
Kumble will obviously bowl loads of overs & would do even if they were playing in a marsh, & in 3 Lords tests he has 9 wickets @ 40.22 but if he gets it right then he'll be dangerous as he gets his wickets through bounce & not turn & obviously the Lords slope could provide him with both, & Khan is a certainty. Personally I think Sreesanth will be his partner & although Pies seen him bowl since I have, personally I like him as I think hes got a bit of fire & he will learn as he goes. That leaves 1 spot betwen Sharma, RP Singh & Bose. Sharma is tall but not particularly quick, Pie says he doesnt look test class & all I've heard about backs that up tbh. Singh is the likelier of the 3 to play you'd think, particularly as he outbowled Bose against Sussex, but I have a sneaking feeling for Bose tbh. He hasnt played a test but at 28 he seems pretty old, particularly for an Indian seamer, to be touring England unless theyve got a plan & intend using him. I'm not saying common sense always applies here but he has got a good domestic strike rate & took 57 Ranji Trophy wickets last season which has only ever been beaten before 5 times, & believe it or not has never ever bowled a front foot no-ball in over 10,000 deliveries Maybe hes more for the ODIs, but I sense a plan I dont think they intend playing 2 spinners at any point in the summer we're having, & I only think Powar is here for the ODIs.
Therfore, I think India will be:
Jaffer, Karthik, Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman, Ganguly, Dhoni, RP Singh/Bose, Kumble, Sreesanth, Khan

It looks pretty strong in the batting, particularly from 3 down, & I read an interview with Goochie suggesting that the ageing Indian superstars still have a lot to give considering he himself scored over half his test runs after the age of 35, but theres 2 ways of looking at it. An England tour is quite often seen as the perfect end to a test career & although I dont think Dravid could be looking at it that way, theres a possibility of Tendulkar & Ganguly eyeing it up, & Laxman as I've said never seems to be too far from being dropped. On a dry deck its hard to see India being skittled but there wont be many dry decks in this summer & although a lot of the main bats have played here before its not impossible to see them being routed on a green pitch.
A lot depends on the England bowlers, as if they get it right, & Hoggard & Sidebottom rarely dont in this country, they can go through anybody in these conditions. The difference being I feel that England have to bat badly to be routed by India on English pitches. Broads inclusion will be interesting & personally I'm looking forward to him playing (if indeed he does) I think hes a very positive player & I think he has a sense of the big occasion, & a home debut at Lords is certainly that !! After saying that India will be grateful if Harmison doesnt make is as he showed signs of clicking again towards the end of the WIs series & had been bowling well for Durham. Hes a hard bloke to understand at times but when hes gets it right hes horrible to face, enough even that I have it from the horses mouth that theres one Warwickshire batsman of recent years who even feigned a knee injury to avoid being picked to face him at Chester-le-Street

I'd agree with Pies shout at England, 1 or 2 nil....but Lords is hard to call & I'm tempted to have a small draw lay, but hey....its India & not WIs
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Old 16-07-2007, 01:18
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Re: India in England

Another point that occurred to me earlier, is that its interesting timing regarding the statement that KP made on being tired. He stated that he started the season flying but has gradually slowed down & he lists this as fatigue. Now hes only played 3 tests vs India, all of them away, but they are the only country he averages under 40 against & its comfortably his worst opposition stats wise.

Nothing to write home about as I'm sure theres many other players the same as Indias a hard place to tour, but its just something that occurred to me

Just the facts, Jack, just the facts
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Old 16-07-2007, 04:41
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Re: India in England

At least KP had a month off... rib injury. Collingwood must be doubly knackered.

Think Broad will get the nod pitch regardless, to avoid four No.11s if nowt else.

I don't think I'd back the draw (at the price) but I wouldn't advise one of your 100pt lays, Swoops

I'm with Sammy that Cook could go very well this series. Will think about getting on his series runs when the spreads go up. He's 4-1 to top score 1st innings Lords which looks better to me than any result bet.
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Old 16-07-2007, 04:52
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Re: India in England

Ah, you did write 'small lay'. That could be the go. If there is a winner, it's surely England. I can't see Khan, Sreesanth and Singh bowling England out twice in a probable 300/350 over test. Kumble a problem, but may have to be overbowled.
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Old 16-07-2007, 20:34
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Re: India in England

Currently toying with the idea of Karthik HS @ 7/1 1st test Bet365, 10/1 Indian series Bet365 & 16/1 overall Sp.Odds

Hoggard MoM @ 12/1 Bet365 & Sidebottom 14/1 same bookie
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Old 17-07-2007, 12:42
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Re: India in England

Sreesanth will be the pick of the Indian seamers,

Shame Irfan Pathan's not been selected as he would have enjoyed the English conditions and he can bat a bit.Anyone know whats happened to him?
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Old 17-07-2007, 13:24
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Re: India in England

Was looking to buy Cook on the spreads, but he's quoted at 265 needing an ave of 44 over 6 innings. Possible, but too rich for my blood.

The weather for Lords looks bloody miserable. It suggests spread sells before reviewing the position going into the 2nd Test.

These are all series SELL

Jaffer runs @ 200 at 1pt
Ganguly runs @ 190 at 1pt
Sixes @ 18 at 3pts
Boundary 4s @ 370 at 0.75pts


So, sorry lads, i'm looking for Lords to be thoroughly miserable and difficult for both sides. Don't blame me! it's your weather!
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Old 17-07-2007, 14:32
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Re: India in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_Sammy View Post
Shame Irfan Pathan's not been selected as he would have enjoyed the English conditions and he can bat a bit.Anyone know whats happened to him?
Yeah, hes been shit for 2 years & they keep sending him on training camps but his bowling lately has been atrocious
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Old 17-07-2007, 17:52
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Re: India in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_Sammy View Post
Sreesanth will be the pick of the Indian seamers
I like Sreesanth, I think he has balls. Pie saw him in the Lions game though & thought he wasnt up to much. Having seen him bowl in both tests & ODIs my opinion is that in England, & particularly this summer, he'll bowl too short & be not quick enough to get away with it. I'm not sure hes got the control for the type of wickets that he'll bowl on here this time around. I think given time, which is hard these days in shorter, more condensed tours, that he could be ok over here but you tend to find visiting test bowlers learn from their first trip & if theyre good enough to be picked again in 4 years time, then they have input.
Thats not to say I wouldnt pick him, I would, as I think he does have something....but I think Khan is massive to Indias chances & if he bowls poorly, then the lot hangs on Kumble.

Harmison has been ruled out of the summer & I think Tremlett has been added to the squad but unless theres injuries its between Anderson & Broad. I agree with the Broad pick but I cant help feeling Lords at the moment will suit Anderson more....unless they drop Monty & play both

Something I mentioned a couple of days ago has cropped up....Kartik opening & keeping & Dhoni being dropped. This would enable India to play Yuvraj Singh at 7 & personally I think its not a bad move
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Old 17-07-2007, 23:37
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Re: India in England

Sressanth's OK, in the way Plunkett on an average day is OK. Gets big into the verbals for no discernible reason. Might go well, confidence type I imagine. This RP Singh better be useful otherwise Mr Kumble will be bowling both ends
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