More Poker Help...

[Beanie]

Just a bit of advice I'm looking for when flopping say pocket 7s 8s or 9s.

Is it worth playing that hand strongly pre-flop, maybe even all in, given that heads up you'll be ahead unless someone has a higher pocket pair? Always seems a bit risky to me as an all in pre-flop hand, but then I guess as they say all you can do is get your chips in while your ahead.

:think

[GETT1NLOTS]

You're talking about 7,7, 8,8, 9,9 I guess?

Not 7,8s (suited) 8,9s or 9,10s?

[Beanie]

Aye, 7 7, 8 8, or 9 9. Mid range pocket pairs.

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Edit: Ooops...I realise my mistake - I said "When flopping pocket 7s 8s or 9s"

First off I don't mean the 's' as a spade sign, but as a plural, and I don't mean flopping, I mean being dealt.



Its getting late...

[moDtheGod]

Flopping a pocket pair? Preflop? What game are you playing?

[moDtheGod]

I see. I'm always playing a pocket pair. heads up it's massive. You could limp and try to make trips in a full handed game or you could raise as you have a legitimate, already made hand. There's many ways to play a pocket pair, folding isn't often one in my mind!

[GETT1NLOTS]

It all depends on the situation Beanie and I hope you wont mind me admitting I'm a little drunk and can't be trusted to reply in detail with regards to every scenario.

But in brief.

Start of an MTT / STT - call / check and see if I can get trips with value in the pot.

Midway through an MTT / STT- if I'm in late position I might put in a raise but other than that I would flat call and try and hit trips (same as above).

Towards the end of an MTT / STT- If I was in late position I would raise. In early I might flat call but only on a tight final table otherwise I would raise again.

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Cash Games - I would call and hope for trips. Any sign of a medium raise might force me out pre flop.

[Beanie]

Aye Mod, I don't think I'd consider folding, but I was in a situation there where I raised the BB pre-flop with pocket 8s, and had two callers.

Flop came something like: 3 J K

And the chap before me sticks in a big raise, and I don't think I had much option other than to fold.

So the problem I find is if I'm getting 2,3 or 4 callers, more often than not one will make a higher pair on the flop, so maybe bigger raises are needed to at the very least make it heads up?

[GETT1NLOTS]

Disclaimer - it all depends if I'm against tight or weak players of course.

[Beanie]

Originally Posted by GETT1NLOTS

It all depends on the situation Beanie and I hope you wont mind me admitting I'm a little drunk and can't be trusted to reply in detail with regards to every senario.

But in brief.

Start of an MTT / STT - call / check and see if I can get trips with value in the pot.

Midway through an MTT / STT- if I'm in late position I might put in a raise but other than that I would flat call and try and hit trips (same as above).

Towards the end of an MTT / STT- If I was in late position I would raise. In early I might flat call but only on a tight final table otherwise I would raise again.

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Cash Games - I would call and hope for trips. Any sign of a medium raise might force me out pre flop.

Cheers Gett1n

[GETT1NLOTS]

Beanie he could have had A Q and was hoping to hit but I would have folded too. Even if he's drawing he has a lot of outs and you're in bad shape. Good fold.

[aliensyndm]

Ok what I think you mean is being dealt a hand like 77,88,99 and you are wondering what to do with it pre-flop ?

In cash games these hands are good to call a raise with. (as is any pocket pair) Obviously you are trying to hit your card on the flop and hence make a set or a full house, it's about an 8-1 shot you do.
So knowing this you have to make sure any person you call a decent raise from has at least 8 times the size of the raise in cash in front of him.
I usually prefer it to be alot more though.
By this if you do hit a set on a flop like J 8 2 etc where you hold 88 and the strong raise is playing AA or KK etc there's a great chance you will win a large pot. The only danger is you must be disciplined enough to fold a hand like 99 if the flop is 8 5 3 say, if you suspect the other person is playing a high pocket pair. It's in position like this you have to work out whether he raised with AK suited or KK etc. Try not to get sucked in when they do have legitimate raising hands but the flop might suggest you are winning.

Some people get far too "attached" to hands and are unable to bin them - some people just can't fold AA or KK. This is one of the reasons why calling large raises with lower pocket pairs is great. OK sure you might both flop a set but that's a risk you take, unlikely but it does happen.

In the above scenario let's say you've called in middle position with 99 and someone after you has stuck in a healthy raise of 5 x the big blind and it's been folded round to you. Hmmm ok it's the kinda raise you might make with KK etc. Now if the person has a big enough stack in front of them to give you decent implied odds go on and call.
Now lets say the flop is J93. Great, you've flopped 999. Now how do you play it ? You are first to act, do you check it and check-raise him or do you bet it ? You must bet it. A check-raise usually signifies I have a monster hand and even the loosest players may throw decent hands to check raises. But if you bet it, and your opponent is playing a hand like KK AA etc he will most likely raise you, in which case you can raise back. Ok it's possible he could have JJ but that's a risk you take, you've got to assume you are winning that pot at the time of the flop.


Now hands like 77 88 99 in tournaments. When blinds are small get in cheap with them and try and flop a monster and take down a large pot with them.
Later on when blinds are bigger you have to be a bit more wary with them.
Heads up it's a decent hand but when there's still 5/6 players left and they are calling it's unlikely you are gonna win a pot with them unless you do flop a set. You wanna be taking people 1 on 1 with them, but don't go throwing too many chips in with them if blinds are sufficiently small and you have a reasonable sized stack. Heads up it's a decent hand as you are ahead to any 2 over cards, it's only bigger pocket pairs you have to worry about. You're gonna be called by a bigger pocket pair at some point, it's inevitable.
When you're getting down to the last stages of a 10 STT say and there's only 3/4 people and blinds are very big left then a hand like 99 is very good indeed. Say you had about 1600 chips left with blinds at 300/600 hands like 99 are all-ins without a second thought. Also if you do have a decent chip lead and pick up a hand like 99 when blinds are big don't hesitate to stick a short stack all in pre-flop with them - just make sure there's not another big stack still to play who might re-raise you.

OK to sum up - Cash games good for calling raises with and flopping a set/house to take down a monster pot.
Fine for just calling with as well. No need to raise with them, get in cheap.

Tournament - When blinds are small get in cheap and try and flop a monster to take down a big pot. When blinds are big you wanna be heads up with hands like 99 and not in multi way pots. So large raise/all in accordingly.

[aliensyndm]

Oh here's quite a cool wee link btw.

http://www.texasholdem-poker.com/calculator.php

It's a pre flop calculator. You can stick any hand in (except jeremy beadle's) and it'll tell you what the chances are of flopping each hand.

[Beanie]

Perfick...

[traeth]

I am a beginner and have learnt a lot from reading this - thanks

[CJ Mars]

I think people overplay PPs especially when the flop is ragged and they think the other person has nothing. Today for example I won 2 all ins with pocket Ks first and then pocket Qs when I reraised the rag flops all ins. They turn over pocket 8s and 9s. Admittedly they were short stacked and probably desperate. This after me putting in big pre flop raises on both occasions. I appreciate I'll get busted out occasionally but in the long run so far this has been very good for me.

Personally I rarely would raise with anything lower than 1010 and only then in late position. You're not getting the value in the long run in a short handed pot