2 hands that happened in 5 minutes that really pissed me off

[Jezza]

Yep some sick hands here....


Ok hand 1.

OK you have a read on this guy that he is generally quite bad as in trying weird things on and overvaluing hands, thats a good thing to have noted here and definately should influence our play on this hand. Up until the flop bet I think everyone of us would play it the same, the hand really starts when you get min checkraised. This is a strange board to be doing that on. He could have a straight with J10, two pair like Q9 or 89 (I doubt Q8) or a set. He could also very easily just have top pair or some shite given his history. I dont think he has AQ has he would have raised preflop with that but he could be just being funny with KQ or something. As it stands I definately dont have enough information to fold but im not reraising either, since we have position on him we can flat call and get more info from the turn card and what he does then. I would do the same as you and probably think a Q would be the worst turn card (as then anything he has is beating us surely) and apart from an A an 8 or 9 would be good for us (as it makes a set less likely and we could easily have lept infront of his two pair if this happens).

I think that turn card (an 8) is a great one for you. Pocket 8s is now highly unlikely and you lept ahead of him if he had Q9. Of course we are still beaten by J10,99 or any hand he has with an 8 in it (not really likely but possible I suppose). However the board is still dangerous with a possible 4 straight coming out on the river or the Q pairing or some wank card at the end. I think you have to raise here given the card was so good for you. Against most players I would definately raise here (but against anyone with any sense I am insta folding to a reraise). If HE reraises I would REALLY have to think about it given that he completely over values top pair.................. Personally I would probably make it 21 quid or so here. If he flat calls it then river play depends entirely on the card that comes and what he does - im still not 100% what he has.

As you played you have to call the (shitty) river really for that size of bet but its kinda gay. You made a good call on the flop muse, I think you really should have raised on the turn tho (to be fair if he had paired his 9 on the turn I would lose more to him this way but I still think that was a good turn card given his rather wide range)

2nd hand
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Hmmm I dont really like this flop. Ok with one caller you are still pretty much very likely to have the best hand...but its one of those situations where you either get 0 action if you are winning or loads if you are beaten. Its far more likely he has a Q in his hand than a 7. I think both betting or checking here are ok...personally I would definately check it multiway but HU I dont mind a bet, he might give you a call with a middle sized pocket pair and by betting at least you stop an A hitting the turn for free.

Great thinking when you bet and he raises muse, you are totally right 9/10 ten times there your average bad player will flat call with a Q and by raising he is telling you he doesnt have it. I agree totally with your thinking and like your flat call. I would put him on either the 7 with something like 67 or 78s or a middle pocket pair. By reraising you might blow him off the hand and only get action from the Q (its still possible) and by flatcalling you give him a chance to hang himself with whatever he has on the turn.

Onto the turn and that card just sucked. I dont think he raised you with nothing on the flop, I would put his range at either the 7 or a pocket pair and he just outdrew you if it was the former. I still agree he doesnt have the Q because of the way he played the flop but the 7 is a definate possiblility I think this is marginal either way given his stack and the amount he bets and he definately does the same play with a pocket pair as you say. Against a very deep stacked player I prob flat call this and check/fold the river to a bet (hoping he checks a PP behind me) against this guy I can see a CR all in but its marginal.

Jez

[aliensyndm]

OK what are your opinions on this one ? I think I played this one ok but am still wondering a little.
Ok classic raise of 4 BB by some dude. I have 88, nice hand to call a raise with so I do. The flop comes 2 7 8 with 2 diamonds. About as good as I am gonna get ! The pot contains 10 BB, I am first to play and I lead at this flop for 6 BB.
He raises to 16 BB, perfect just what I want. Exactly the kinda play AA KK is gonna make. Now I have the decision of do I re-raise or check raise on the turn.
I decide to call and check raise the turn.

The turn falls an ace. Urgh, just one card I certainly don't want to see as it's very possible he's just hit a set. It's doubly bad cos if he has KK this ace is gonna slow the action down. I check this.......and so does he.
That sets the alarm bells off a bit. The river falls a blank.
Ok so now I have a decision as to whether I check or bet here.
If he has KK how much is he gonna call I wonder ? If he has AA is he gonna put me all in ? Fecking tough to lay that set down but the warning signs would all be there. I decide to check and see how much he bets.
He checks the river and mucks. Interesting. I look up the hand history.
What do you think he had ? He had Ad Kd
He checked his aces, a nice play.

My first reaction is I am pissed off that I didn't win more money from this hand. But on reflection I could have stood to lose a fair bit as well and I think I actually played it not too bad.
The check on the turn is quite a good play from him. He stops me check raising him. He gets to see if he makes the nuts for free. It also disguises his hand very well as at this point no danger was I think I was up against AK.
Now I begin to wonder if I had re-raised him on the flop if he would have called. This would be my best chance to win money from this pot unless of course I make a set and he makes the nut flush.
Thing is as it seems he was a pretty decent player there is a good chance he would fold here.

Hey I still won the pot etc so shouldn't moan. The thing I perhaps did overlook is his raise on the flop might be the very hand he had, something like AK or AQ suited and he may possibly think he was drawing to two overcards and a flush draw.
Any comments ?

[mrmuzeman]

Many comments Alien!

I know you do have the nuts there we know that but I would still reraise on that flop because he may have the flush draw (I thought he may have this before I even read what you said he had I promise). What are min raises? Either a very strong hand OR a flush draw they are almost always. AKs, AQs, KQs all fit the bill and you cant risk giving off that turn for fairly cheap by calling imo. $30 in there as it is which is not to be sniffed at in the case that he manages a laydown (slim possibility imo)

It doesnt even matter anyway cos few players are gona be able to ditch their AA, KK, QQ there anyway when you lay the hammer down so just bring it down to china town. Plus if hes drawing it makes him pay and if he folds well you won a decent pot anyway. I believe by reraising you cant make a mistake which is always the best scenario.

On a rainbow flop there im doing exactly as you do and planning to checkraise all in on the turn cos theres no danger and youll stack him that way vast majority.

Another thing id do is go full pot at him on the flop to try and form as big a pot as possible incase he has a big pair. Often when you do that and they reraise theres no trickery even needed cos if you move all in theyre so committed as to the pot size they just have to call. Or they just think they have the best hand anyway.

The way it goes though the Ace im not too worried about it really. If hes got AA good luck to him hes gona stack me there. I think its too specific to slowdown in fear hes made a set. Of course im aware of the danger but its unlikely hes hit a set, far far much more he wont have done.

What has he done? Reraised on a flop after raising preflop. Could just as easily be KK, QQ, JJ, 1010 as AA tbh. Perfectly legitimate to do those 2 bets on those hands. Also and this is important we have our previously mentioned AK and AQ and if he has those he now has TPTK or close to it! So when we bet if he has those hell at the very least call, just as likely reraise or go all in which would be bonza! If he does have those and we give off a free/cheap card to the flush a second time its asking for trouble imo.

Tbh I think youve been way too tight there for me, you have the second nuts on the turn you cant be worrying too much about walking into the stone cold nuts. Dont mean to bust your balls or anything dude im just telling you what I think honestly and I really think thats too tight.

[aliensyndm]

Yeah I think I can be too tight at times. Or try to be too clever.I'm trying to read hands too much. KISS - keep it simple stupid ! As you say if he's made his set on the turn tough shit I guess. I've got what I am playing for in flopping a set and I gotta try and make it pay. If I re-raise him on the flop I can't go wrong, either I win the pot there and then or he puts his cash in behind.
I could have put myself in the shit there. Onwards and upwards I guess !

[mrmuzeman]

Aye good man Alien!