Would you push or check here?

[DAN DAN]

I would go all-in from the start but that's just what I have to do with A 10 these days. I have fallen foul to a poker superstition. Was sure I would never get one of these but if I call or raise A 10 I lose, if I go all-in I win, bar twice out of about 13 times recently.


Seriously though I would go all-in in that situation and not check, I would be thinking he may have 2 hearts on BB, not expecting him to have AK and I'm just making it outwith his reach to chase a flush.

[Doc]

I think you more or less did the right thing muse - he played his AK terribly, unless he has X-ray vision. If you were on any kind of a draw he isn't going to make any more from the hand. As it is, he is giving you a chance to draw to a ten and beat him.

He may have read your raise pre-flop for a steal, in which case I think he should have re-raised. Instead he is putting himself out of position in an increasingly big pot against a hand he knows very little about with only ace-high!

In actual fact your raise isn't a steal, IMO. It is a solid value bet - you are up against 3 random hands, two of whom are out of position. Sure, you're not thrilled about a call - which is a good reason IMO to make the bet bigger - you'll have more info about anyone who plays with you.

So, you lost to a bigger Ace - that is tournament life. I think you did the right thing. You're not actually that big stacked at this stage - your chips are probably only enough to last you 5 or 6 goes round the table (maybe 4o or so hands I'm guessing). If you're going to get involved with AT then you have ask "what if I'm called?"
Top pair with a strong kicker against little show of strength is plenty justification to stay involved IMO. If you're going to play so cautious as to check it down once the flop comes if you're called, you're vulernable to any aggressive player. Remember that he is probably reading you for a steal. Many players would (perhaps correctly) make a move at the pot with a smaller pair (e.g. another jack) in those circumstances. If you're just going to check/call/fold, then you're going to end up folding the best hand a lot of the time.

You have to be decisive at this stage of a tournament - if you're going to get involved in a hand, most of the time you have to be ready to put most or all of your chips on the line. So get stuck into it, or stay away from the hand. To fall between is just to bleed to death.

[mrmuzeman]

Go all in for 25BB Dan Dan you muppet

Say you were stealing with 9s3s here and the BB calls, and checks to you, you'd bet that A flop to represent it and take down that pot.

Nice example hand but yes that is correct I would make pretty much exactly the same bet had I NOT had the A but total junk in this situation when checked to I guarantee it. Thats exactly the way I build chips in a tourny cos even if youre 'steal' raises are called they mostly check to you and and then a bet will take down even more the blinds/antes because they called preflop. Which is why...

Once he calls, now surely youd say ok, well fine im letting this baby go here, ive lost 26k but I have more than enough chips to see me through, so thats why i think you made a mistake betting the turn.

...I can understand the check turn, it is a valid option I think. Which is why I posed the thread cos I was in 2 minds at the time but kind of just thought fcuk it, my A really might be good (plus Iwas rushing).

he played his AK terribly, unless he has X-ray vision.

Totally agree Doc. THIS TIME it was played perfectly but played badly in the long run. If hes played "properly" (if there is such a thing) hed have reraised preflop (thats what id have done if I were him) and I fold my A10 there and then. If he checkraises the flop...I fold. If he pushes the turn...I fold. Ahh what a cnut he was slowplaying TPTK, done me like a kipper

[DAN DAN]

Originally Posted by mrmuzeman

Go all in for 25BB Dan Dan you muppet

Well it's done ok so far.

[mrmuzeman]

So you were actually being serious about going all in preflop

[DAN DAN]

Originally Posted by mrmuzeman

So you were actually being serious about going all in preflop

Unfortunately yes I was serious, only those two cards I'd do it with, well all-in or fold.

[Yen_Sid]

Originally Posted by DAN DAN

Unfortunately yes I was serious, only those two cards I'd do it with, well all-in or fold.

She's not won her first MTT yet MrM, can't understand why.

[Jezza]

Hi Guys.

Pretty tough decision here muse. Firstly preflop, I dont think anyone can argue with your play here, I doubt most decent players would do anything different here usually. On the flop well its not bad for you, you hit top pair after raising preflop- always good. Barring ridiculous flops I usually try to keep the lead if I have raised preflop and follow up with a CB. This is again usually a good aggressive play and one you will see all the top players using time and time again. That is not to say it is always right but it is a good rule of thumb (I might not use it for example if I have raised preflop 4 times in a row, CB on all of them and won it every time. If I WAS to do it for a 5th time, raise preflop that is, then I would probably only bet if I hit a good flop I could stand action on - the chances of me being played back at have been increased due to the previous action). Thus I would bet here 90% of the time faced with a Q high flop, this flop and of course the dream KQJ flop. I CAN understand the idea of checking some good flops for you after raising for various reasons, however I am not over enamoured with it here. Mostly because of the presence of two broadway cards on the flop. A LOT of hands that will call you preflop here will now have a gutshot to the top straight or quite possibly a jack, with the chance of a flush draw as well. A lot of free cards can hurt you on the turn and I dont think this is a spot to give one. If you do check a flop like this after raising you have to be far more prepared to call down afterwards as you have given the impression youve missed to your opponent and I would hate a free card here. However when your opponent calls you cant be too enamoured as your hand is not that great and you have to try and put him on a range of hands he could have. There is the obvious flush draw and a definate chance he could have this. Plenty of players will defend with suited connectors and since he fears you could well have an A the chance of him check raising with a draw are lower than usual I would say (assuming he is a reasonable player and has thought about what you have). A Jack is another definate possibility, plenty of hands he would defend with would have a jack in them and I he could well not be sold on the fact you have an A (although he is surely worried about it, again hence the flat call and not the check-raise). I doubt he is calling with a gutshot for such a large bet with the stacks in play, so these are the hands he could have that you beat. If he has an A well thats another possibility and there is a large chance you are beat if that is the case. I would not be too worried about AK as I am sure he would reraise preflop with that but AQ and even A9 beat you (after the turn). AJ however for me is the big worry. He would have flopped top two and a slowplay is a definate candidate here. A set of 7s would be the other one (I discount jacks as again I believe he would have reraised preflop with that). So meh I would be split inside my head as to if I am winning or losing on the turn. You only beat the raggiest of rag aces if he has one (and you have to consider if he is the type of player to defend with that sort of hand as you consider your turn action as well) - but there are plenty of things here you are infront of as well. I dont think it is particularly bad to either check or bet here - however if you check you look like a man who has been caught stealing and this must increase the frequency you call a bet on the river if this is your choice of play. Personally meh I would have pushed and been quite surprised to see AK calling me, if he called I would have said do you have AQ/J to him and been totally wrong.

[Jezza]

Re Dan Dan : what you said about open pushing in MrMs spot with A10. I can understand (And agree) with this play if you are a shortstack (Generally speaking I count less than 10BB as a shortstack in a tournament). You are going to go through with the hand regardless in this spot if you raise so you may as well put maximum pressure on your opponents and just go all in. The same applies if noone behind you has a stack bigger than 10BB and its folded round to you in a spot you would normally raise A10o in. However with a larger stack infront of you and other ones behind you you must just put in a standard raise and play from there. The reason being you are risking too much by pushing a huge stack all in preflop here with ones behind you to act afterwards. Sure you will probably win the blinds on most occasions but the times you are called it will be by a MUCH superior hand to A10 and you will lose a huge amount of chips, far outweighing the blinds you pick up the other times. For this reason just put in a normal raise (the same one you would make with any hand you would raise with here) and see what happens. I can understand you are worried about being outflopped/bad beaten/outplayed but the first two are just facts of life (you can get away cheap when outflopped anyway and hey bad beats happen, it just wasnt your day) and the latter can be overcome by a desire to play better anyway! The more you play flops in these situations the more you learn and you can always post hands up on here for discussion if you are wondering something afterwards.

Jez

[DAN DAN]

Thanks for the reply Jezza. I always believe in the all-in if 10BB or less scenario.
I usually would go all-in with A anything & any pairs above 6. Most other things I would fold as I believe an A will call me and usually they hit. Unless I was sure I was picking up the blinds of course.
Any big raise before me would make me rethink too.

I have to say my play does change often though, so that is not set in stone. I am a bit reluctant to post hands as I often don't know my thinking behind them. I can have really good play some days and bloody awful play other days.

What I can't do is win an MTT, I can often get to the later stages but never win. I can win STT's though. In STT's I usually sit back and let other players take each other out then start playing once it gets nearer the money unless I get monster hands. I find that it doesn't matter too much how far ahead the chip leader is I can still win. Not always obviously.

[mrmuzeman]

Cheers for that Jez (you used the word 'enamoured' twice )Dan Dan, I wouldnt be worried about not winning an MTT! I presume by MTT you mean playing with ones with 50+ opponents and often massive fields? Well if thats the case you can play hundreds and not win one, its just the way it is, theyre bloody difficult to actually win without playing tons of em.

[christianu]

I disagree with all this about he should have re raised with AK pre flop, nah im having none of that. I wouldnt ever, especially out of position there.. another positive is that his hand is disguised as well. But that doesnt even come into it before I know im not re raising with AK here.

And if i were him I would have checked the flop but then probably pushed all in after the CB.

[Jezza]

Hi Chris,


I never said he "should" have reraised preflop with AK, I just said that I put it quite far down the list of possible hands he is calling us with on the flop due to the lack of reraise.

[christianu]

ok mate, i just like to disagree with everyone to look cool in my own eyes