Would you push or check here?

[mrmuzeman]

Ok MTT, the bubble recently burst. You have 76k which is around average chips, blinds 1500/3000 with antes. You raise to 10k in the cutoff when folded to with A10o and the BB calls you.

Flop A J 7 with 2 hearts.

BB checks, you bet 16K into 22K. The BB calls.

Turn 9 non heart

BB checks. There is 54K in the pot, you have 50K left, your opponent has 40K.

Do you push all in or check?

I assume there is no point in betting less than an all in, you either have to make up your mind if you have the best hand here or not imo and either go all in or check.

[cains]

I would go ALL IN

Your raise could be seen at, as a steal attempt...
He calls and hope to be lucky, possible hands...
Any pair 22 - 99
Axs
KQ
KJ
QJ maybe...

He wants to see what you are doing.. You are following up on your raise (steal attempt from his point of view).. Maybe he has A lower kicker than you, or he has J something... Maybe the KQ, and maybe with a flush draw as well...

Imo he dont have a set, couse he would not check that.. and risk giving you a flush.
The pot is a size it would be nice for either of you to take down right now no matter what..
And also 2 pairs is out of the questions then...

He could have AK or AQ and you loose most of your chips.. That sucks, but thats how it is..
I would move all in with my AT.. Hope he has flush draw / straight draw or A with smaller kicker, and call you when he shouldnt, and you nail the rest of his chips, and has dobbel of the average.

[mrmuzeman]

Good good Cains fair play. I will tell what happens tomorrow at some point so get the replies in whilst its hot...

[cains]

Find me on msn sometime late saturday or sunday, couse im out for the big one tomorrow
I dont expect to remember anything saturday... So good this site is bookmarked..

[nonecks]

hmmmm.....

just from reading the info you've given i would agree with cains in saying that the only bet i would make is to push all in. Checking just allows him to make a play with an inferor hand and give you a tough decision or allows him to get a free card to any draw he could possibly have and if a heart or broadway card comes on the river puts you in a tough position on what to do. There is some info missing on the image of the player as that has a slight bearing on the correct play to make. If the player is loose-passive and likes to chase draws, i absolutely push everytime there and give him incorrect odds to make the call considering you have 50k and the pot has 54k. However if the player is tight it's a marginal decision whether an all in push or check is correct as he may have had you outkicked or maybe flopped a set of 7s. If you check and he bets out strong, i think you can just give him respect and fold the hand and you'll still have nearly 17bb's left. I reckon you'll be able to wait for better spot.

Just my £0.02p

[Doc]

3000/1500 blinds is probably 400 Antes I'm guessing. You don't say how many at the table, so I assume it is nearly a full table. I'd say your raise is a little small - I'd be looking to go something like 12-15K here.

The problem with the 10K is there is probably something like 18K in the pot and it costs him 7K to call - those are attractive odds against a possible steal if he has anything with potential to improve.

I'm a little puzzled when you say there was 22K on the pot before the flop betting - were the antes that small ?
Anyhow - taking it at face value - he has something from the flop - He is unlikely to have played two low hearts - is the Ace one of the hearts? If not, I'd be a lot more wary. I'd doubt he has an ace - if he had, he'd probably want to bet at the flop to get a feel for where you might be. Still, many players would be cautious with Ace-small here.

I like your bet here (on the flop) - but his call is some cause for concern. Two pairs or trips is possible - against a single pre-flop raiser I might well slow-play at this stage of a tourney and risk losing to the flush for the expected gain in chips.

When he checks the turn, I'd be much less fearful of two pair or trips. If you check a draw behind, he will make no more from the hand (unless you flush AND he fills). I'd be fairly confident he is on a weak ace, a draw or another pair.
Realistically AQ and AK are the only hands you're scared of IMO and neither are likely from the betting till now. I'd definitely bet now. I'm not so sure I'd go all-in though. He is unlikely to call what is essentially a pot size bet with second pair or anything else very weak. I'd be trying to tie up the rest of his stack - maybe 25K bet or something like that.

Put yourself in his shoes. If he is a good player then he might be reading you for a steal raise, but knows there is at least some chance you have something worthwhile. He's called two big bets from you (pre-flop and flop) and you're coming back with a third bet on the turn. Realistically it is hard to see what he could be holding that he could defend with any confidence here when you bet the turn.

So - short answer - get more money in the pot on the turn!

[kristobal]

I don't think he's on the flush draw as he gets incorrect odds to call after the flop, I'd think that he has higher Ace, two pairs or set of jacks/sevens.
I don't know what kind of player he is but if he's tight, solid player I'd check (as he already called your 2 big bets) because he might be slowplaying you and allowing you to put the rest of your chips in the pot while he already has you beaten.If he bets then after the river and you didn't improve your hand I'd fold.

If he was loose player and you knew he could be playing a weaker Ace or lower pair I'd also check trying to show weakness and make him bluff me by going all-in, I'd call him then praying that I was right.

[christianu]

Check the turn 100%

Check the fucking turn muse

If you bet all in your only getting called by a better hand. If i raise with A10 and i get called I hate it, lets make this pot as small as possible please.

In actual fact id check behind him on the flop, call any bet on the turn he makes as long as its less than pot, and then make a new decision on the river, you get more info from your oppenent from his bets than anything else, as it stands you have no clue where you are muse, your like a lost puppy.

A lost puppy who has just been neutered.

[mrmuzeman]

Shut up Chris you donk

[christianu]

I mean come on, 70k and 3k big blinds, your nicely stacked, and this is the most gay thing ive ever heard:

3000/1500 blinds is probably 400 Antes I'm guessing. You don't say how many at the table, so I assume it is nearly a full table. I'd say your raise is a little small - I'd be looking to go something like 12-15K here.

I mean why are you raising with A10o here, the only time I raise with A10o latter stage of mtt is to steal, I would hate a call, isnt he calling me with a better hand?? So unless for some bizarre reason you want to get involved with some mega pot with A10 here check the turn, and dont listen to any of these muppetts who will quote you some shite from a gay book.

Checkin the flop allows you to minimise losses against AQ AK AJ JJ etc.. whilst most likely increasing the chances a smaller pair or gay QK KJ will pay you off, if your smart enough, look at there bet on the turn and figure out what they have and take it from there.

[christianu]

Yeah exactly muse, i get no respect whatsoever on here but without (and also by without it means I will) wanting to sound like a knob I like to think outside the box and im 100% sure I have a unique MTT game, whilst so many people just play exactly the same as each other.

Anyway ive managed to come accross yet more of a twat but I know you were just joshing, your a nice funny guy muse :K

Buy gay limit player COC i mean DOC, this is split over from a thread a long time ago. U dnt lk me, i dnt lk u. Fuckin great grammmmmarr and spulling there.

[mrmuzeman]

dont listen to any of these muppetts who will quote you some shite from a gay book

Chris holding back his punches there I can see this turning into a good thread.

As it happens in this particular instance Chris is spot on (although I dont necessarily agree with every point made)...I pushed and ran into an AK.

I think I got a wee bit carried away cos I was on a roll. Not long before I had top 2 pair all in against a flush draw (sick call from the flush draw) which would have put me in top 10 of chips but he sucked out and I was left with 3bb but I got back to this stack as you see it within about 10 minutes of that with some double throughs and kind of played my rush feeling invincible (we all know the feeling) I guess leading inevitably to my downfall.

[christianu]

Of course Im right muse of course

Nah im pissed and acting like a bit of an idiot here, but my MTT game is spot on, tell me what you dont agree with mate, Ill keep it all civil.

Sorry for the outburst doc, you just really pissed me off a while ago.

[mrmuzeman]

I just think the flop check is a weak play tbh. You do expect that top pair is the best hand here right? I mean it should be most of the time and hes checked to you as well, I think a bets in order on the flop. Theres a good 25K or so in the pot which is totally great to win right now and a bet should take that down here most of the time I think. The way you are playing here (though right on this particular occasion ) surely requires you to win in showdowns and awful lot.

I mean why are you raising with A10o here, the only time I raise with A10o latter stage of mtt is to steal, I would hate a call, isnt he calling me with a better hand??

Aye it were steal for sure and id rather just take it down preflop definitely BUT it doesnt have to be a better hand calling you at all. He could as easily have a worse hand as a better hand imo (suited connectors, Arag suited, any 2 pictures etc) and also theres pocket pair possibilities and all of that.

I totally agree on the 12-15K thing you argued against though Chris. 3BB is standard fare in tournies nothing wrong with 3 to 3.5bb type preflop bets at all when raising to capture blinds and antes.

[christianu]

By argued against you mean "worst thing ive read ever" LOL!

Ive thought about it more and betting the flop is like yeah I might take it down here right here with this ace, it probably is fine to bet the flop.

But say it is a steal which you were saying it is, it is like a semi steal.

Say you were stealing with 9s3s here and the BB calls, and checks to you, you'd bet that A flop to represent it and take down that pot.

Once he calls, now surely youd say ok, well fine im letting this baby go here, ive lost 26k but I have more than enough chips to see me through, so thats why i think you made a mistake betting the turn. Check the turn, see what he bets on the river, I think he probably would have then bet half pot and there comes another tough decision, oh goddd this is a really horrible situation, thats what I meant by developing a pot by betting the flop, yes i stand by it, check the flop and minimise this pot, but then again you might just take it down!

Its too much for me muse, its too much.