Technical Question - KK on flop

[Scottieboy08]

Hey all, a check-up on this hand would be much appreciated. Is this always a push against this LAG? (44/13/1.3 over 97 hands, sorry not enough again I know). No history against them, but seems bad at playing overpairs and TPTK type of hands. If this is bad, any other ways to play this? (ie. stop n' go a safe turn, just fold etc.)

I have $57, Villain covers.

Scottieboy08 posted the small blind - $0.25
SPruss posted the big blind - $0.50

** Dealing card to Scottieboy08: Kh, Kc
Lisa_the_pro folded
Villain raised - $2.00
Nyvoll folded
hero11 folded
Scottieboy08 raised - $7.00
SPruss folded
Villain called - $5.00

** Dealing the flop: 2d, Qd, 10s

Scottieboy08 bet - $10.00
Villain raised - $20.00
Scottieboy08 went all-in - $40.07

[mrmuzeman]

Yeah Scottie bit gay the min raise there. If he whacks it all in on the flop then its a more obvious call. The min raise makes it a bit dodgy but I still think you have to go through with your overpair there. You cant do anything tricky cos theres many draws there and you dont want to second guess yourself nor give him a cheaper card. Fcuk it just go all in, I dont like it the situation much but I think its incorrect to fold on this particular flop in this particular situation.

[mrmuzeman]

Bare in mind always when making a play and analysing it after, the odds you are getting layed. Here by going all in you are staking $40 to win a pot containing $75 (presuming you are called, obv if you dont get called thats sweet). So even if you win the pot just 50% of the time its a solid value play. If you think you only win about 1/3 of the time here then going all in/folding are basically the same.

[Doc]

all-in, no question for me. He is raising 13% of hands pre-flop. That is a pretty wide range - probably every big ace, two picture cards and most pairs. You may be behind, but not often enough IMO to warrant folding. The hands you are really worried about are AA, QQ, TT and 22. A player like that is probably going to re-raise you with AA, QQ and maybe even TT pre-flop. I'd say you're up against AQ, KQ, KJ or Ax of diamonds often enough to be confident here. Even if he has QT you still have lots of outs - two kings (obviously), two deuces, a running pair, or runner runner straight

[christianu]

Fold this, your probably beat to QQ AA or 10 10.

Unless he's a donk. Not a nice flop, he's min raised, he wants you in, fold mofo.

[Scottieboy08]

Originally Posted by christianu

Unless he's a donk

This was my read Chris. Anyway, the guy folded quite quickly so I just hope no value was lost from a decent Q. Maybe my insta-AI could have contributed to this.

[christianu]

Its a horrible situation but it comes up an awful lot.

I had two similar ones myself in my last cash session.

I had KK, raised to $4, the button re raises me to $12 and I call.

Flop comes Q55 rainbow...I check he bets $6 and I call, turn comes a blank..I check he bets $12 and I fold, you have to put him on QQ or AA, the gay betting confirms it, I typed some mad shit in chatbox and he said he had AA, I still think he had QQ.

Another one, somebody raised to $4 and in position with KK I re raised to $12, he called and the flop came J 5 3 and 2 clubs, he checks I bet pot and he re raises all in, I fold with some more chat and he shows me AA.

Both deepstacked. Thats better than winning a $200 pot, reminds me of a hand muse posted once where he called little daft bets with 7 9 on a 7 9 9 J A board or something similar, damage limitation. I still dont think I could do that.

SICK LAYDOWNS gotta make them

[christianu]

Well yeah if your up agaisnt a donk its an auto all in, any decent tight player and its a fold.

If its someone you recognise, multi tableing then fold, if its a randomer all in.

Thats what I say!

[christianu]

Nice one as well, better than him calling there, took it down UNCONTESTED

[mrmuzeman]

You are right to be cautious sometimes Chris. It is all about flop texture though, every flop is different. If you get min checkraised on a rainbow board its an obvious fold. If you bet the flop and someone raises all in on a board like Scotties you have to call.


Is this the hand youre talking about Chris?

Seat 1: gemy (£36.04 in chips)
Seat 2: markyg02 sits out
Seat 3: Zodiac002 (£17.60 in chips)
Seat 4: Rob27112 (£18.83 in chips)
Seat 5: mrmuseman (£25 in chips)
Seat 6: Klokset83 (£29.79 in chips)
Seat 7: Mrs_mo001 (£14.90 in chips)
Seat 8: MrDVicker (£3.70 in chips)
Seat 9: Eric34 (£23.85 in chips)
Seat 10: Elvis5700 (£25.70 in chips)
Rob27112: posts small blind £0.15
mrmuseman: posts big blind £0.25

----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to mrmuseman [9s 7s]

Klokset83: calls £0.25
Mrs_mo001: folds
MrDVicker: folds
Eric34: folds
Elvis5700: calls £0.25
gemy: folds
Zodiac002: calls £0.25
Rob27112: calls £0.10
mrmuseman: checks

----- FLOP ----- [7d 9c Qs]

Rob27112: checks
mrmuseman: bets £1.50
Klokset83: raises to £3
Elvis5700: folds
Zodiac002: folds
Rob27112: folds
mrmuseman: calls £1.50

----- TURN ----- [7d 9c Qs][9d]

mrmuseman: checks
Klokset83: bets £2
mrmuseman: calls £2

----- RIVER ----- [7d 9c Qs 9d][Kc]

mrmuseman: checks
Klokset83: bets £5
mrmuseman: calls £5

----- SHOW DOWN -----
Klokset83: shows [9h Qd] (A Full House, Nines full of Queens)
mrmuseman: mucks hand [9s 7s]
Klokset83 collects £20.20 from Main pot

[Scottieboy08]

Originally Posted by christianu

I had KK, raised to $4, the button re raises me to $12 and I call.

Flop comes Q55 rainbow...I check he bets $6 and I call, turn comes a blank..I check he bets $12 and I fold, you have to put him on QQ or AA, the gay betting confirms it, I typed some mad shit in chatbox and he said he had AA, I still think he had QQ.

Hmm, this is a tight fold. I might donk off a bit more money there I reckon. Was this around the set-over-set farce?

Another one, somebody raised to $4 and in position with KK I re raised to $12, he called and the flop came J 5 3 and 2 clubs, he checks I bet pot and he re raises all in, I fold with some more chat and he shows me AA.

Sick fold Chris especially with a flush draw out there, good laydown. I take it the two guys were multi-tabling then?

[Scottieboy08]

Originally Posted by mrmuzeman

You are right to be cautious sometimes Chris. It is all about flop texture though, every flop is different. If you get min checkraised on a rainbow board its an obvious fold. If you bet the flop and someone raises all in on a board like Scotties you have to call.


Is this the hand youre talking about Chris?

Seat 1: gemy (£36.04 in chips)
Seat 2: markyg02 sits out
Seat 3: Zodiac002 (£17.60 in chips)
Seat 4: Rob27112 (£18.83 in chips)
Seat 5: mrmuseman (£25 in chips)
Seat 6: Klokset83 (£29.79 in chips)
Seat 7: Mrs_mo001 (£14.90 in chips)
Seat 8: MrDVicker (£3.70 in chips)
Seat 9: Eric34 (£23.85 in chips)
Seat 10: Elvis5700 (£25.70 in chips)
Rob27112: posts small blind £0.15
mrmuseman: posts big blind £0.25

----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to mrmuseman [9s 7s]

Klokset83: calls £0.25
Mrs_mo001: folds
MrDVicker: folds
Eric34: folds
Elvis5700: calls £0.25
gemy: folds
Zodiac002: calls £0.25
Rob27112: calls £0.10
mrmuseman: checks

----- FLOP ----- [7d 9c Qs]

Rob27112: checks
mrmuseman: bets £1.50
Klokset83: raises to £3
Elvis5700: folds
Zodiac002: folds
Rob27112: folds
mrmuseman: calls £1.50

----- TURN ----- [7d 9c Qs][9d]

mrmuseman: checks
Klokset83: bets £2
mrmuseman: calls £2

----- RIVER ----- [7d 9c Qs 9d][Kc]

mrmuseman: checks
Klokset83: bets £5
mrmuseman: calls £5

----- SHOW DOWN -----
Klokset83: shows [9h Qd] (A Full House, Nines full of Queens)
mrmuseman: mucks hand [9s 7s]
Klokset83 collects £20.20 from Main pot

Sick calldown Muse, you done well there to lose the minimum

[mrmuzeman]

Look at this KK hand I had just now


*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DEEPSTACKD [CK HK]

TheLondonEye: Raise $4.00
Chrisyac: Fold
snatcheroony: Fold
wilms: Call $4.00
DEEPSTACKD: Raise $14.00
Filup: Call $14.00
donteatfish: Fold
papier: Call $13.00
TheLondonEye: Call $10.00
wilms: Call $10.00

Erm WTF so $70 in preflop, im in cutoff

*** FLOP *** [H6 H4 C4]

papier: Check
TheLondonEye: Check
wilms: Check
DEEPSTACKD: Allin $86.00
Filup: Call $86.00
papier: Fold
TheLondonEye: Fold
wilms: Fold

*** TURN *** [C6]
*** RIVER *** [S5]
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $239.50 Rake $3.00
Filup: wins $239.50

Dealt to Filup [S4 D5]


Well thats just sweet isnt it he hit and ran too, he was a right spanner he called an all in on a pure gutshot just before and this hand was 2 before the KK one (im in SB, muppets in BB)


Dealt to DEEPSTACKD [DQ SQ]

donteatfish: Fold
papier: Call $1.00
TheLondonEye: Call $1.00
Chrisyac: Call $1.00
snatcheroony: Call $1.00
wilms: Fold
DEEPSTACKD: Raise $6.50
Filup: Raise $12.00
papier: Allin $32.10
TheLondonEye: Fold
Chrisyac: Fold
snatcheroony: Fold
DEEPSTACKD: Fold
Filup: Call $20.10
*** FLOP *** [S8 HK S4]
*** TURN *** [D10]
*** RIVER *** [H7]
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $73.20 Rake $3.00
papier: wins $73.20

Dealt to Filup [DK DJ]
Dealt to papier [HA CA]

I despair

[Scottieboy08]

Is this the first time you've come across him Muse? Thats just crazy, the KK hand is just funny pre-flop, $70

I've just had a sess where I spiked pp's on the flop 6 times out of 8. Sick run of cards and came out just over a buy-in up. BUT, if I hadn't got done by a set-over-set second hand of the night, it would have been 3 buy-ins Oh well, can't grumble considering Chris' thread a week ago

[mrmuzeman]

Aye I got set over setted on Thursday. Got fcuked with that KK Friday, not the best.

Is this the first time you've come across him Muse?

Yeah, hell be back I guess to after doing his hit and run 54o cold call

I mean what more can you do with the Kings there, barring an A on the flop or something random like QQx. JJx you have to go for it. That Papier guy was a bag of shite as well calling with anything. Was a table of nutters.