You make the play

[Hippy Dave]

Early stages of a tournament, no real read on any of the other players.


Game #2960036444: Hold'em NL (15/30) - 2006/07/10 - 19:42:49 (GMT)
Seat 3 is the button.
Seat 1: BOING68 (2660 in chips)
Seat 2: GeraldM (1360 in chips)
Seat 3: frank00 (1215 in chips)
Seat 4: jumpinjoe (1430 in chips)
Seat 5: Top Pear (1050 in chips)
Seat 6: gorilla G (1440 in chips)
Seat 7: Adrock (1650 in chips)
Seat 8: debly (1360 in chips)
Seat 9: EvadBlack (1410 in chips)
Seat 10: YOU (1425 in chips)
jumpinjoe: posts small blind 15
Top Pear: posts big blind 30
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to YOU [Kd Kc]
gorilla G: raises to 60
Adrock: folds
debly: folds
EvadBlack: folds
YOU: raises to 180
BOING68: folds
GeraldM: raises to 1360 and is all-in
frank00: folds
jumpinjoe: folds
Top Pear: folds
gorilla G: raises to 1440 and is all-in
YOU: ??????

[Beanie]

Arggg...nightmare.

But if I'm allowed to sit down and think about it...

With just 180 of my chips committed I've still got the stack to mount a good challenge, and the blinds are still small enough to give me plenty time to do that, so a fold doesn't look too bad here.

Given that its early and I don't really have a good read on the opponents, then I'll be giving respect to the min raise in first position, and his subsequent all in, and that is the hand I'd be most concerned about. The guy in behind could feasibly have anything, but I'd consider most likely either JJ or QQ that isn't liking the raising in front.

The min raiser I'm thinking AA, KK, or AK, with AA the more likely(lets say 60% - 40% disregarding the KK.)

Can win about 4300 costing 1245 more.

If I am up against JJ and AK then I'm still only towards 60% to win the hand, if its JJ and AA then I'm under 20%. So I'm going to put my chances of winning the hand(plus a bit of adjustment given that the one I've put on JJ(QQ) could have AA or AK).

I'm putting my chances of winning the hand at just under 30%...and given the amount I need to put in I'm getting the odds by not much more than 1%(I think) so my answer will be call, but in all honesty I'd be just about indifferent between the two actions.

In the heat of the moment tho I think I would fold given that I have plenty time to build my stack and still a fairly healthy no of chips.

[trickrick]

The early stages of Tournament play really can bring in some crazy all-in's to get the huge stack advantage at the beginning. If it's a MTT then this is emphasised even more. I would judge that the minimum raiser has AJ/ A10, the the first all -in guy has AK, and the final all-in has some middle pairs such as 88 or 99.. Bearing that in mind I'd definately call the all-in with KK and hopefully skip the two aces left in the deck.

Of course I could be completely wrong and AA is ready to be shown...But that's probably why I only play poncy low $ MTT's and freerolls.......

[Beanie]

Originally Posted by trickrick

The early stages of Tournament play really can bring in some crazy all-in's to get the huge stack advantage at the beginning. If it's a MTT then this is emphasised even more. I would judge that the minimum raiser has AJ/ A10, the the first all -in guy has AK, and the final all-in has some middle pairs such as 88 or 99..

Min raiser is the final all in guy tricky

I agree on your point regarding MTT tho. All the various types of STT/MTT and the level of buyin would also be influencing my decision here.

[trickrick]

Bollux..Why don't I read things closely..

First (and last time) I post an opinion on a game..

[mrmuzeman]

It quite a lot depends on whether your into the tourny or not as well. I mean if its a crapshoot tourny or a $1 tourny then fcuk it call that. If its a deepstacked tourny, decenbt buy in or the blinds arent too harsh too soon you can afford to fold it and wait for a better spot. I mean theres definitely an Ace there you would think so thats a pretty decent chance of you going out in a shite place right there. Add in a reasonable chance of their being shown AA then its pretty marginal to call and put your entire tourny at risk at a stage NOWHERE NEAR THE MONEY. Remember your objective in a tourny changes from that in a cash game, you go out its over and you failed basically.

For an example say we had an open ended straight and flush draw off the flop in a juicy live buy in tourny, whatever you want say WSOP event. Someone who your very sure has a big pocket pair is all in after the flop but its all very deep and the blinds are small. In a cash game you would certainly call here as you figure to be a slight favourite and its +EV int he long run. In a tourny its different I wouldnt be calling here on a draw for my entire tourny with such a slight edge nowhere near the money when my stack is in no danger of being short whatsoever.

[Hippy Dave]

Ok, interesting replies everyone.

I deliberately didn't say what buy in tourney it was, as I don't think that should influence your play - sure in a low buy in a player is more likely to go in with junk early, but a bad player is also just as likely to pick up AA as a great player.

The initial raiser turned out to have QQ, the one that went all in first had AK.

If you had the advantage of seeing the cards before making the call/fold (I can tell you that you are 56% before the flop), what would you do?

[Beanie]

Definite call for me then.

[Jezza]

I think I go with muse on this one, if the buy in for the tournament was 200 or greater id fold it and if it was less Id call it. Not a good idea to have a hard and fast rule I know but its about the best I can think of here given we have 0 reads and there is a real good chance you are shown AA by someone.


Jez

P.S. Great thread dave

[cains]

IMO none of them has AA.. (i know the answer has been givin)..

But why go all in with AA so early in tournament, and only take fown 240chips?? That wont do much help in 30-45min when its gone with the blinds...

I think AK, KK, QQ was the most likely... Maybe AK for both of them.. And in that case they only have 2 outs.. (unless they flop straight or flush).. So i would call... If you are up against AA.. Then this was not the tourney for you... If you win this 3 handed, you are in good shape, and can pick your plays very carefully over the next 1,5hour...