FOLD CALL OR RAISE?

[mrmuzeman]

Gayness, very poor play there by J10s. Incidentally that kind of hand is the best hand to face a big pair lucky for him.

[pistol984]

That is totally sick Jezza.

I'm really unsure about the first hand you posted up mate. I don't think he's on AA or KK because I think he'd lead at the flop with those and woud certainly have had to take a shot at the turn. Although, if he has a decent read on you, you say he knows you only raise with min AQ here, then he may trust that read and slow right down as he has you dominated.

If he does have 44 or a 2, which both seem possible form the discussions above, then I think he'd play it pretty much exactly as he has above. But that's hardard to say without knowing the player, personally I might have led out if I'd flopped the monster and waited for the re-raise if I think I've got a good enough read on you to know u have a premium hand.

Summary: I don't have a clue, I just talked myself in a big circle and this post is actually a waste of space. Although, it did get me thinking about a hand and will probably benefit me, so cheers.

[pistol984]

I'm not so sure about him having a pocket pair JJ downwards. I wouldn't be calling your bet on the flop with those hands, I'd be re-raising to see if you've missed or binning them. If he's missed the flop with his weaker pocket pair what does that call achieve for him? Since you checked the turn maybe it's a clever play by him, cleverer than I can spot, as he gained some insight into your hand strength by giving nothing away himself and putting another decision to you.

Who knows, maybe he had pocket 10's and just caught a sweet river. That'd be a nice simple solution that my poker brain could handle.

[cains]

Originally Posted by Jezza

go on Denmark

no pussy for me tonight,,.. :/

I was to drunik to get her with me home... So just has ti

or juusstttt

goooooodddnniiiigghhtttttttt TDP!!!

[Baron Greenback]

Originally Posted by Jezza

Hand history below

Game #3276516394: Hold'em NL (£2/£5) - 2006/08/31 - 08:35:52 (ET)
Table "luckyman" Seat 5 is the button.
Seat 1: Roman13 (£183.50 in chips)
Seat 2: CALL.MUCK (£491.98 in chips)
Seat 3: mannien (£208.79 in chips)
Seat 4: DrPill (£468 in chips)
Seat 5: PokaHunta (£593.75 in chips)
Seat 6: mag-c (£1505.50 in chips)
Seat 7: Killy9 (£226.75 in chips)
Seat 8: Badpoker (£342.25 in chips)
Seat 9: Devestatr (£539.75 in chips)
Seat 10: cDShiva (£493 in chips)
mag-c: posts small blind £2
Killy9: posts big blind £5
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Devestatr [Qc Qh]
Badpoker: folds
Devestatr: raises to £25
cDShiva: folds
Roman13: folds
CALL.MUCK: folds
mannien: folds
DrPill: folds
PokaHunta: folds
mag-c: calls £23
Killy9: calls £20

If, as you say, he's decent and tight. He's not going to call in such bad position with A small, suited or not. It's the implied odds of a low to middle pair, suited connectors or a truly good starting hand that induce a call in that position IMO. (but what do I know!?)

Originally Posted by Jezza

----- FLOP ----- [2d 4h 2c]
mag-c: checks
Killy9: checks
Devestatr: bets £72
mag-c: calls £72
Killy9: folds

He's check-called a bet where odds are 2/1.
The flop either (i) hasn't helped his decent starting hand. (ii) very likely hasn't helped his suited connectors unless he's drawing to a weak (most likely inside) straight or (iii) HAS helped his low pocket pair to give trips, FH or quads.
Given your table image; in situation (iii) a check-call wouldn't be a bad play IMO.
Could you really see a tight, solid player calling in this position unless he had something?

Originally Posted by Jezza

----- TURN ----- [2d 4h 2c][5d]
mag-c: checks
Devestatr: checks

Although you didn't get any information here, he can't be drawing to a flush. That would just be bad play on the flop. Safe to assume this card didn't help him.


On reflection, if you could play this hand again would you bet here?

Originally Posted by Jezza

----- RIVER ----- [2d 4h 2c 5d][Td]
mag-c: bets £177
Devestatr:........................................ .......?

He makes a pot size bet. Flush disregarded. Pocket 10s are possible but not as likely IMO. He's either on a stone cold bluff or he has had you beat since the flop and wants you to think he's bluffing. I'd be inclined to fold, fearing the flop cards.
Looking at the board, there are too many hands that have you beat.

However, by the time I'd thought all that through, I'd have been automatically folded by the dealer anyway!

[Jezza]

All right guys,

Well you all did pretty good (and better than me in many cases). I called, he had quad 2s........

Once he calls on the flop being a decent player he can only have JJ TT,4s full or a 2 (I disregard quads as its extremely rare to see this). Theres no draw there and he has to know I have a hand so I doubt he is calling to bluff me later. To be fair it is possible he has a lower pair as well and puts me on AK. I checked the turn as I either have him crushed and drawing to 2 outs or vice versa (and I dont want to lose him if I have him beat). If he checked on the river I could well have value bet again however when he bets I should reevaluate instead of calling so quickly. TT made a full house on the river and he is unlikely to bet JJ or a smaller pair I feel (he checks these and hopes he caught AK bluffing). However I still called in the heat of the moment and lost. Analyzing it afterwards (something I always like to do with all my hands) I can see a fold is definately possible.

Cheers for all the replys

Jez