Slow Playing

[GaNgStA kEeKs]

Back playing poker for my first time in a while and im interested in hearing everyones views here.

Basically i used to be a sucker for slow playing and then it costing me come the turn or river.

Today ive been playing hard and havent slow played once and made people pay to play and its worked for me so far being nearly $200 up.

Anyways my question is, is removing slow play from my game a bad idea or a good one?

Obviously if i have flopped the best hand possible for example on the flop i can afford to slow play knowing i wont get beat.

I guess too it makes me a very predictable player also.

Thoughts?

[DAN DAN]

I never slow play unless I have the nuts either Kiko, been stung far too many times.

Just takes a bit longer to get where you're going.

[aliensyndm]

I think there are some good thoughts on slow play in this thread Kiko...

http://www.thedailypunt.com/forum/sh...t=slow+playing

[Yen_Sid]

Originally Posted by Kiko

Anyways my question is, is removing slow play from my game a bad idea or a good one?

Personally Kiko I would say a good idea, been stung far too often by letting people stay in the hand and getting lucky. If you flop the nuts and decide to slow play it then yes maybe it is worth it if the pot is small. When the turn comes out you may no longer have the nuts though, ach sometimes it's worth the risk. If it was middle/end of a tournament with big blinds then personally I would be looking to kill it dead, early on if you slow play and some bugger gets lucky then the pot wasn't worth winning anyway. So to sum up, I don't have clue, suppose it's how you feel etc at the time, what's gone on before etc.

[aliensyndm]

Here's some stuff from the thread I posted...

Me -

Flopping a fullhouse is normally a good thing right, but sometimes it can land you in bother ! The kind I am on about is if you are holdin a small pocket pair like 33,44,55 and flop a house.
Say you are holding 66 and you flop J J 6. Now plenty worse flops than that right ? You've made a pretty big hand there. You don't have to worry about straights or flushes coming, these are some of the hands that might pay you off.
The main worry is someone with a jack filling up to a bigger fullhouse.
A jack is certainly in the "playing zone". It's a card many people will call preflop with. AJ, KJ, QJ, TJ also many people will call any 2 suited cards.
It's back to that slowplay thing again. The stronger your hand is the more you can slow play it. Slowplay becomes more dangerous the more opponents you are against. If you are in a pot with say 5+ players, slowplaying that hand could lead you into trouble. I mean you want people to hit their flushes straights right but you don't want anyone with a jack filling up to a better full house and costing you ! Should you bet this hand on the flop ? The thinking going that you will get action from anyone who has a jack, except you gotta think here you are still ahead as it'd be pretty hard to put them on J6. You also get deception in your favour as noone is gonna think you are coming out betting a fullhouse on the flop. Hands like AJ KJ QJ etc will give you action here. Also people might think you are trying to buy the pot and people with pocket pairs like 99 88 or even QQ etc might call, who also have a chance to outdraw you of course. Now obviously you would want as much cash in on the flop before they have a chance to fill up. The flip side of this is that the possible straights/flushes who might pay you off won't get a chance to be made as not many people are gonna be sticking about on a flop like that especially if there is raising going on. So where do you draw the line ?
Do you check this ? Do you bet this ? What are people's opinions ?

Jezza -

This can be a tough spot to decide what to do in - as always it depends I think

The thing is like you say, say you hold 66 and the flop is JJ6 rainbow. Now you are definately getting action from a jack here and they have a realistic shot at outdrawing you so free cards CAN hurt you here. However the problem comes in that weird things might happen on the turn and river which would result in you being paid by something else. A backdoor flush for example, or a straight. Or somebody possibly falling into a smaller FH with pocket 2s or 3s and catching their set for instance. The latter is especially good as they might put you on a slowplayed J and you get all their stack. Its therefore a pretty close call as to what to do.

I think in general there you have to weigh up the situation in terms of the number of players in the pot and the board. If theres only 1 or 2 others in the pot im probably going to take the chance and slowplay it - the chances are they dont have the key paired card to pay you off at the moment and you have to try and let them catch up. IF one of them had put in a decent raise preflop however then I could well lead at, they might have a 2nd best hand in the form of an overpair they wont let go of here, but assuming just 1 or 2 limpers I do prob slowplay and hope they fall into something that they will pay you off with. If there are a lot of players in the pot and the paired card is a J (poss a 10 as well) or higher then I will prob lead at it. Its far more likely here that someone has the card and you will get maximum action playing it this way if that is the case - I would discount ANYONE having J6 (apart from POSSIBLY the blinds but still it is very unlikely) and I would definately go to the felt on the flop in this situation with anyone of the limpers. If the board pair probably did not help anyone (bar maybe the blinds) like 655 or something then I would probably slowplay and hope an action card like an A fell on the turn or someone else makes something backdoor. A blind holding a 5 here, well it doesnt matter if they fill up

[aliensyndm]

You should never remove slow play from your game. There is a time and a place for it. You might perhaps benefit from not doing it nearly as much if it's something you overuse. Unsophisticated players love to do things like slow play. They also act weak when they are strong, and act strong when they are weak in an attempt to fool you. Many people slow play hands you just cannot adfford to.
The worst candiate is a straight, never slow play a straight. There are so many ways you can be outdrawn. Even if you flop the nut straight you cannot slow play it. Sure it's annoying when you bet it and everyone folds but that's far better than slow playing it and losing a monster pot after being outdrawn.

Say you've limped with AQ and the flop has come 10 J K with two of a suit.
Under no circumstances would I ever slow play this in a cash game. Well almost none. There are so many ways you can end up losing this pot or getting a split.
Obviously with a flush draw out people will draw to flushes and if they hit you are drawing dead, why give them a free card to hit it ? Other hands people call with can end up making a straight too like QK, QJ and you'll end up with a split pot. Also other hands which you are very likely to get action from can fill up to a full house, hands like 10 J , J K , K 10. You also have the chance of someone having pocket 10s or even pocket jacks, normally if someone has KK you hear about it pre-flop but not always. You just cannot go checking hands like this, especially when in a multi-way pot. Remember the more people that are in the pot the more dangerous slow play becomes as there's more ways for them to outdraw you.

If you are going to slow play a hand in a multi-way pot you really have to flop a beefcake. Say you have limped with JJ and the flop comes J 2 2. That's far less vunerable to outdraws than flopping the nut straight. You actually want people to make flushes and backdoor straights there to pay you off. You also want people to hit lower pockets pairs like 10s downwards and make a full house. Or you want someone with a 2 in their hand to fill up to a full house.

If you flop the nut straight in a cash game and you can get all the money in pre-flop then that's the best scenario possible ! Usually it doesn't happen that way but if it does, great. Usually if it does the person will have a pretty decent draw like a set but that doesn't matter as you will be putting your money in ahead and come out on top long term and that's what counts.

[MickeyPaul]

http://www.thedailypunt.com/poker/ar.../slowplay.html

Quite a few other pieces to read on the homepage (right column, can't miss them) http://www.thedailypunt.com/