Omaha Hi - Hand Advice

[kompressaur]

Ive been playing a bit of this the last 24hrs and met up with a decent crowd of poeple last night on Bet365. One incredibly helpfull person Zakky said he would pop by and sign up and i can see that he has. Howdo Zakky.

Zakky things went tits up a bit when you went. Was i ever in front on this hand? It seemed to me i was looking good before the river. I couldnt work out what i needed to bet to price out the flush draws. Can oyu offer any advice for me on this one?

thanks

Dealer: silke1969 posts Small Blind $0.01
Dealer: AceAceAss posts Big Blind $0.02
Dealer: xc975 posts Big Blind $0.02
Dealer: Dealing cards
Dealer: Your cards Js Ad 9c As
Dealer: Actinolite raises $0.04
Dealer: xc975 calls $0.02
Dealer: lettunaama folds
Dealer: jukajuvu calls $0.04
Dealer: eve1985 calls $0.04
Dealer: thedailypuntcom raises $0.10
Dealer: silke1969 calls $0.09
Dealer: AceAceAss calls $0.08
Dealer: Actinolite calls $0.06
Dealer: xc975 folds
Dealer: jukajuvu calls $0.06
Dealer: eve1985 calls $0.06
Dealer: Dealing Flop
Th Qh Ks
Dealer: silke1969 checks
Dealer: AceAceAss checks
Dealer: Actinolite checks
Dealer: jukajuvu checks
Dealer: eve1985 checks
Dealer: thedailypuntcom bets $0.20
Dealer: silke1969 calls $0.20
Dealer: AceAceAss calls $0.20
Dealer: Actinolite calls $0.20
Dealer: jukajuvu calls $0.20
Dealer: eve1985 folds
Dealer: Dealing Turn
Th Qh Ks Jc
Dealer: silke1969 checks
Dealer: AceAceAss checks
Dealer: Actinolite checks
Dealer: jukajuvu checks
Dealer: thedailypuntcom bets $0.46
Dealer: silke1969 goes All-in $1.78
Dealer: Player PoorOldMan has joined the table
Dealer: AceAceAss calls $1.78
Dealer: Actinolite folds
Dealer: jukajuvu calls $1.78
Dealer: thedailypuntcom goes All-in $1.56
Dealer: AceAceAss calls $0.24
Dealer: jukajuvu calls $0.24
Dealer: Dealing River
Th Qh Ks Jc 6h
thedailypuntcom:
Dealer: AceAceAss checks
Dealer: jukajuvu checks
Dealer: jukajuvu shows Flush
Td Jh Qd Kh
Dealer: jukajuvu wins with Flush
6h Th Jh Qh Kh $9.38
Dealer: jukajuvu wins with Flush

[Zakky24]

After such an introduction how can I resist!

Holdem players tend to over value AA when playing omaha - your start hand had little low potential, so unless you had a high flop it was unlikely to scoop. (Luckily in this case you did).

AA9J

I tend to think of Omaha as a post-flop game - not pre-flop, hence with a hand this weak I'd probably just flat call the raise.

Th Qh Ks is a great flop for you - immediately meaning no low hand. However there are 2 danger cards on this flop - namely the 2 hearts. With this number of people seeing the flop (5+you) you are pretty much guaranteed at least one is holding 2 hearts. Assuming this alone, there are 9 outs for someone to hit a flush, along with 9 outs to hit a full house - overall 18 chances to "out-nut" you. 18/45 rough odds = 2.5/1 chance someone will end up with better hand. The 2 Aces helps reduce likelihood you'll split pot with anyone if the straight holds up.

At low level it is difficult to chase people off the pot - at higher levels your 5xBB would probably chase anyone off the hand without the nuts - at this level people just hang on in for that miracle card.

Jack clubs on turn is ok, but it now means you are pretty much guaranteed to be sharing high with at least one other.

The strong re-raise from Silke suggests that they are holding nut high str8 too.

AceAceAss is pretty weak player. so I would assume he's just chasing at this point.

I'm nervous as all 3 people cannot be also holding nut high as you have 2 aces, therefore at least one is chasing the flush.

JukaJuvu is holding an interesting hand, he's likely to win if a heart hits (9 outs), a King, Jack or Ten will give him a full house (6 outs). 15 / 44 slightly better than 3:1. To be fair as he's chased this far another 24c to potentially win $9+ is worthwhile.

He hits and is yet another happy muppet. I guess on the turn he was getting a potential 5:1 return on his investment for a 3:1 risk, so long run a good bet. I suspect his analysis wasn't quite this technical!!

If he'd have missed you would've shared the high with 1 or 2 others. ie, an overall bet of about $2.20 for a return of at worst $3.10 (at best $4.70) - a profit of 90c.

Generally, this is the issue with Omaha - the complexion of a hand can change several times between flop-turn-river. As I only play micro-levels I tend to be more passive until I'm guaranteed to be holding either nut high/low after the river (and preferably both) and then I'll be very aggressive.

The classic reverse of this is people being aggressive on the flop and passive afterwards - usually a classic example of holding A2xx or A3xx which misses or is counterfeited.

I've noticed recently an increase in the "all-in-and-hope" players on this site, and hence I've adapted my game to play as tight as possible to avoid big losses - perhaps I miss one or two pots but when I cash it generally is for big $$$ (in relative terms!!).

If it's of use I can post what I consider good starting hands etc.

Omaha imho is a more interesting game at low limit than holdem which tends to be fold-fold-fold-fold-ooo I've got an Ace-fold-fold-fold etc.

So in summary, you were well ahead on flop, at least equal on the turn and way behind on the river. Welcome to Omaha.....

Zak

(If there's any good PLO8 players out there I apologize for the awful analysis - I'm still learning too!!)

[kompressaur]

nah that was brilliant Zakky thanks. It all happened so fast i couldnt think. Dont mind the quietness in this forum Zakky as we're just new to all this and im hoping to encourage a few non trendy non holdem boys in. all takes time. I got arrested last night and just released so i havent had a chance to catch up. Infact im away for some Omaha right now. what a game.

So in summary, you were well ahead on flop, at least equal on the turn and way behind on the river. Welcome to Omaha.....

cheers Zakky

[Zakky24]

Originally Posted by kompressaur

I got arrested last night and just released so i havent had a chance to catch up.

Should I ask?

Surely not just for overbetting that flop??

[Doc]

Is this Omaha HI or HI-lo?

If it is Hi, then I'd bet the pot on the flop. You have the current nuts and want to make anyone pay to catch you. If you get raised you have to give serious consideration to folding, but can make a crying call at this level. Likewise on the turn - you are possibly tying (even probably), but you don't want people calling with trips or two hearts looking to draw out on you. If raised here, you have to fold.

[Zakky24]

Originally Posted by DoctorOfDanger

Is this Omaha HI or HI-lo?

It was actually Hi/Lo, but in effect became Hi only once that flop hit.

[alexross]

good post zakky, and welcome to the forum dude

[Zakky24]

Cheers.

Are there any PLO8 players on here? I'd love some advice on how to play 2 unconnected pairs on the flop. I'll explain further if anyone is!!

Ta.

Zak

[kompressaur]

Soz Zak ive been a bit tied up all week. Tied down with blackness and a wonder about my own self belief. I havent even managed to ..nah tell a lie i was sitting 2nd on a Holdem satelite top 10 go through to bigger satelite and 19 letf. My internet packed in and that was me offline all night. I would have been upset if i didnt have so much to think about.

at the over betting the flop. that cheered me up Zak. Im away to get some smoke and i'll try get some Omaha hiLo in tonight if your on.

[Doc]

yeah, I play a bit of PLO8

[Zakky24]

Ok, remembering I play at low-levels.

Holding A29K ( or something similar),

Flop of A97 Rainbow

So counterfeited low, but holding current nut high.

1) Aggressive player raises 5 x BB.

My action?

2) Same flop but 2 suited cards on flop

My action?


I tend to run away and fold. I know this is a mistake. Should I flat call or over-raise?

Difficult as the muppets tend not to fold at low-limit.

Thanks,

Zak

[Doc]

you're not holding the nut high - you're behind to trips!

Both cases you should fold unless the guy is a complete loon. There is a fairly simple rule in Omaha 8 - if you're heads up and someone bets at you, you have to be locked in to win AT LEAST half the pot to consider calling.

In the examples you give you have no low draw, so you're potentially giving up half the pot straight away. You've also got a marginal hand for high

[Zakky24]

Doh.... Blindingly obvious, my natural passivity has probably protected me from losing on this in the past...

Ok, take the alternative...if you are holding trips (AAA) and someone raises the flop - should you re-raise, or call - both scenarios as above?

It's only recently I realised a few truths of Omaha,

- In a 10 handed game 45 of the cards are potentially in play on the river.
- If you hold AKQJ if any 2 different high cards hit the flop you're drawing to the nut high


Still learning....

Thanks DoD.

Zak

[kompressaur]

Good stuff Doc. Another poker aliement cured. I'm hanging about the Omaha HL PL stt's if anyone is in for some brain busting flops and turns

[kompressaur]

man this game is tooooooo hard. I felt it was right to fold here. I think i was ok for the low on the flop? should i not chase lows? Was that 380 call wrong? I suppose all i had was 2 over cards.

Dealer: TheChammer posts Small Blind 10
Dealer: TimmyDent posts Big Blind 20
Dealer: Dealing cards
Dealer: Your cards Qc Ad 4h Kd
Dealer: ringo251 raises 70
Dealer: thedailypuntcom calls 70
Dealer: Kaffekanne folds
Dealer: imswat calls 70
Dealer: marchino5 calls 70
Dealer: LuHar calls 70
Dealer: bou03 folds
Dealer: TheChammer folds
Dealer: TimmyDent folds
Dealer: Dealing Flop
Jd 7c 6h
Dealer: ringo251 bets 380
Dealer: thedailypuntcom calls 380
Dealer: imswat calls 380
Dealer: marchino5 calls 380
Dealer: LuHar folds
Dealer: Dealing Turn
Jd 7c 6h 9s
Dealer: ringo251 goes All-in 870
Dealer: thedailypuntcom folds
Dealer: imswat calls 870
Dealer: marchino5 folds
Dealer: Dealing River
Jd 7c 6h 9s 2s
Dealer: ringo251 shows One Pair
Ac 5h 3s Jh
Dealer: imswat shows One Pair
2h 5s Qh 3h
Dealer: Player ringo251 wins the Hi with One Pair 7c 9s Jd Jh Ac 1,820
Dealer: Player ringo251 wins the Hi with One Pair 7c 9s Jd Jh Ac 1,820
Dealer: Player ringo251 wins the Lo with
Ac 2s 3s 6h 7c 1,820
Dealer: Player ringo251 wins the Lo with
Ac 2s 3s 6h 7c 1,820