Should online casino's be trusted?

[skinnyman9000]

I have recently developed my own system for betting on roulette tables. I have done a number of what i call 'draw runs', basically testing the system using free tokens/practice money. I have been altering the system as i go along. I think that at the minute i've got it sorted and im just ironing out the wrinkles.

Question is, should i trust online roulette tables? With them being run by software isn't not strictly random number generation, and im sure the software will be sufficated enough to spot any system i'm using and basically do me over.

So, would you trust an online table? My test runs have been using an online table and the results have been very good, im just worried that it'll start robbing me once i credit come money to my account.

Cheers,

Chris.

[aliensyndm]

Before you ask.....

Question is, should i trust online roulette tables?

You should be asking what's with a roulette system ?

Here is the fact of it - There are no bets, no series of bets, no system of bets and no combination of bets that can ever yield a positive expectation.



Scenario 1 - Online roulette is done by random number generator software and is completely "fair" There is no bias towards any number or the like and test runs of millions of spins would seem to confirm this.

In that case no "system" is ever going to win long term because.....see above statement.


Scenario 2 - Online roulette is rigged and is not a random number generator or the like. In that scenario as soon as you begin to win or gain any significant amount it will simply cheat and any system or the like is then rendered useless.



The reality is if you go to a reputable online casino scenario 1 will be the case. The game will be fair but you will never beat it. Simple as that.



The only ways you can ever have any kind of edge in roulette are pretty much taken out by the use of computer. Some roulette dealers are apparently skillfull enough to get the ball to land in a certain segment of the wheel with a reasonable amount of consistency.....collude with one of those and clean up, of course you can't do that at an online casino.
Find a roulette wheel with a bias......chances of that are microscopic I would say. You would need millions of results to have any meaningful data towards detecting a bias, how on earth are you going to get the results of millions of spins from a roulette wheel ? Even if you did detect a bias it is likely to be tiny and probably not enough to meaninguly exploit. Even if you did find a bias large enough to exploit it is still only going to be a tiny percentage you are grinding out and again is gonna take thousands if not millions of spins for any gain to actually show.
Other ways people cheat at roulette are things like "capping" bets....the roulette wheel has stopped and the ball has landed in a number, someone creates a distraction and someone plonks extra money on a winning number etc, these are usually immediately spotted by the eye in the sky if not the supervisors who are watching. Other similar kinda sleight of hand things can be done but again these are all useless at an online casino.


Do you believe 1 + 1 = 2 ? If so you should give up on any roulette system cos roulette systems do not work for that exact reason, maths.
If you want a beatable game you can play in a casino try studying blackjack although again it is not beatable at online casinos cos they shuffle the cards every hand pretty much.

[aliensyndm]

Check out this site http://wizardofodds.com/ for all things casino related, it's the bollocks for that kinda thing.

[skinnyman9000]

What about with the use of a progressive stake system? Whereby each consecutive bet covers the loss of any previous bets in that cycle, until you win, and the cycle begins again. And bet on odds, which are 1/1, meaning that they should come in 50% of the time (taking out the '0' in this case). Then use a cycle up to 6 loses (highly unlikely for an even number to come in 6 times in a row). And there you have a system?

[aliensyndm]

Yes you have a system, but you have a system which loses - the same with every roulette system.

It matters not whether it is martingale, progressive or whatever.


Read this on betting systems......

http://wizardofodds.com/gambling/bettingsystems.html


If you don't believe that well you are saying you don't believe 1 + 1 = 2 and I cannot help you.

[aliensyndm]

This is also interesting reading about people claiming they have some sort of "system" , http://wizardofodds.com/gambling/challenge3.html

[skinnyman9000]

i do understand what you're saying, and im taking it all in, after all im here for advice. But i have been testing the system for several weeks, an hour a night, and its making money day on day.

Having said that, the gamblers fallacy does make sense. My system is based on the fact that an odd number has come out in 5 spins, therefore it is overdue, whereas that is not actually correct.

Its just that ive got a £500 cash bonus coming next month, and i could really do with turning that into more in order to clear some of my debts. This is why im testing systems every night in order to find the one that is most likely to turn my £500 into £1000, and so on.

[aliensyndm]

Exactly, it is not correct and the previous 100000 spins have no influence on the result of the next one. Keep your £500, do not waste it playing roulette, trust me. If you absolutely insist on doing so please visit http://www.casino.thedailypunt.com/ for a list of reputable casinos and click one of our links and sign up, hey you'll even get a sign up bonus amount too but make sure you read all terms and conditions as often roulette is not allowed for playthrough requirements.

[skinnyman9000]

That software that he speaks of for running his test, that would be most useful to have, would save me sitting here spinning a roulette wheel every 10 seconds!

But i will continue to conduct my tests and not place any money until i am 100% happy with the results im obtaining, besides ive still got 40 days until i receive the money, plenty of time to decide what to do with it!

[ONEDUNME]

Originally Posted by skinnyman9000

What about with the use of a progressive stake system? Whereby each consecutive bet covers the loss of any previous bets in that cycle, until you win, and the cycle begins again. And bet on odds, which are 1/1, meaning that they should come in 50% of the time (taking out the '0' in this case). Then use a cycle up to 6 loses (highly unlikely for an even number to come in 6 times in a row). And there you have a system?

Martingale?

Yeah that might work

[skinnyman9000]

only requires an odd number in every 6 numbers

[aliensyndm]

OK cos I mean you never get 6 even numbers in a row do you ?
You'll obviously be wanting the wizard of odds to reopen his challenge I presume so you can win $20,000 from him for developing a system that can beat a negative expectation game of independent trials.
You do realise if you manage it you will be the first person in the world ever to do so ? I really don't get why people cannot grasp the fact you cannot beat a game like roulette with a fancy staking plan.

If I flipped a coin and it was a fair coin and it was a true 50% chance of it being either heads or tails and you bet on the outcome........if I offered you odds of 19/20 (or 1.95 in decimal) every time you got it right would you be able to beat that too ? How would you do that ? By thinking oooh it's been tails the past seven times so it has to be heads this time ? Or ooooh it's been tails the past seven times so tails are hot and I am gonna back tails ?

Would you be able to beat it if I offered you odds of 1/4 ? Ie worse odds ?
If not, why not ? Ok how about odds of 99/100 (1.99 in decimal) ?

Tell you what......if you get odds of less than evens ie 1/1 (2.00 in decimal) it doesn't matter how you stake it, you willl lose !

Get odds of exactly evens....doesn't matter how you stake it...you will break even.

Get odds of anything over evens, doesn't matter how you stake it, you will win.


Doesn't matter how you stake things at roulette, you aren't getting the correct odds, you will lose ! If after reading all the matieral on the wizard of odds site regarding this and you still think you can develop some system well.......the facts don't seem to matter. You do realise the wizard of odds aka Michael Shackleford....

The Wizard of Odds is Michael Shackleford, A.S.A., a professional actuary who has made a career of analyzing casino games. He runs the numbers on new games for casinos and game developers and has helped design many of the popular slot machines on the Internet. He is currently an Adjunct Professor of Casino Math at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, a former contributing editor to Casino Player magazine, and the author of the book Gambling 102, recently published by Huntington Press.

Now some things are theory and the like.....what sub-atomic particles might exist, what is dark matter etc etc....lots of theory about that but with maths it's black and white...

1 + 1 = 2 Correct

1 + 1 = 3 Incorrect

You can beat roulette with a system - Incorrect


The reason these games make money for casinos is because of maths. This is all worked out beforehand.

Michael Shackleford actually designs new games for casinos and tests out ideas for other games and checks the house edge etc. It's not like he is just some random maths professor dude....

a professional actuary who has made a career of analyzing casino games.

Obviously you must know something about maths that Michael Shackleford and the entire rest of the population doesn't.

[skinnyman9000]

Well i'm not liking this, the more i read the worse it seems to get, before researching this a little deeper i thought i had a good system, as i didnt know one was already in existance. My system is slightly different to the Martingale system in that is gives back a set profit for each spin, say £10, then if you lose 4 spins and win on the 5th the total profit for those 5 spins is £50 and not £10. With this in mind would it be possible that the extra money gained from the £10 win per spin rule could offset the amount lost?

Also, during my trials i have gotten to 4 spins, and then if not won i have gone back to the start of the set. For example:

£1 win per spin, bet £1, then £3, then £7, then £15, then if it doesn't win after 4 spins start again at £1, as if offsets the amount that can be lost in a losing streak. If i took that run another 2 spins along and still lost the next two spins would be £31 and £63, so suddenly another 2 spins has cost me £94!!

So my system is slightly different and has been giving me good results so far. Ideally i need a program that can simulate my maths involved and the roulette wheel, as after looking at that website i cannot find a system that has been tested and is identical to mine.

[mrmuzeman]

You can win money using those sort of systems for quite a long time if you get lucky for sure. If you needed a fast buck one time only, I dare say you would win a bit using such methods.

However, in the long run over time you will go bust. There will at some point come a time when the losing run just becomes so massive where you cannot possibly cover your loss by upping your stake to cover your losses. It seems unlikely but its fact that if you played roullette enough youd at some point get sequences of 20 blacks in a row etc and when that time comes youd be fcuked!

Seriously dude 100% you cannot win on games with a house edge unless you have some form of cheat or its rigged for you its as simple as that.

[mrmuzeman]

So, would you trust an online table? My test runs have been using an online table and the results have been very good, im just worried that it'll start robbing me once i credit come money to my account.

My answer to that would be I definitely trust them as long as its an established name. Somewhere like William Hill or Labdrokes casinos you can definitely trust those.