The Official Liverpool thread 2007/08

[all_funkt_up]

Very interesting snippet from a Paul Tomkins article again here.

Paul basically argues that comparing Benitez to Fergie and or Wenger is unfair. He constantly gets slated for not keeping up with United, Arsenal and Chelsea when in reality he has had neither the money of Chelsea/United or the time yet to develop a youth system like Wenger.

Its basically arguing against fans who expect instant success and putting a case forward that Rafa is doing as good a job, if not better, than Fergie in his first few years in charge.

* Alex Ferguson’s first five seasons, after inheriting a team which
had just finished 4th, were as follows: 11th*, 2nd, 11th, 13th, 6th.
Rafa Benítez also inherited a team that had finished 4th, albeit a
whopping 30 points behind the champions (compared with the United of
’86, who were just 12 points behind Dalglish’s champions), but
subsequently finished 5th, 3rd and 3rd. (*In Ferguson’s defence, that
first 11th-place finish came after he took charge in November 1986,
roughly a third of the way into the season.)
* So in his first five seasons, Ferguson took United so far
backwards it’s almost farcical. Perhaps part of this was essential ––
the idea of one step backwards, two steps forward. But those first
years were five steps backwards to only one step forward. Manchester
United had spent the previous five seasons in the top four before he
arrived. In the five seasons following his arrival, they averaged 9th
in the table. In the five years before Ferguson was appointed, United
were averaging 75 points a season. In the five years after, they
averaged an abysmal 59 –– just one point more than in Benítez’s
Premier League annus horribilis, in year one.

* Alex Ferguson won nothing until the end of his fourth season,
when he landed an FA Cup. He followed this with a Cup Winners’ Cup in
his fifth season. Benítez won a European Cup in his first season and
an FA Cup in his second. He also made two other cup finals in his
first three years, including a second in the Champions League.

* In 1989, Ferguson broke the transfer record on Gary Pallister,
spending £2.3m. Steve Bruce and Paul Ince were also fairly expensive
signings around that time, while in 1988 the Red Devils paid what was
then a club record £1.8m to buy back Mark Hughes. Ferguson’s capture
of Roy Keane, at £3.75m in 1992, also broke the British transfer
record. These fees may not seem stellar now, but they were the £30m
deals of their day –– more expensive, by current terms, than Fernando
Torres, who is more than £10m below the current British record, with
roughly a dozen other players (including Ferguson purchases Rooney,
Ferdinand and Veron) also costing significantly more than the Spanish
striker. It took Ferguson four years after this initial heavy
expenditure, and with a lot more further investment, to win the league
title –– his first ‘major’ honour (league titles and European Cups
obviously being the two major ones big clubs look to win). The season
when Ferguson signed Pallister and Ince, United finished in 13th
place, with a paltry 48 points.

[andeeeee]

from what i`ve read elsewhere you`re going to the mancs cup final tomorrow , enjoy it mike got a gut feeling its going to have everything

[all_funkt_up]

Yes mate.

Got lower anny 126 this time. Row 8, nice and close to the away fans.

From what I've seen, there's quite a few good lads in the Anny Road tomorrow, should be a nice welcoming party for them. Think the Road End has been shit for too long now. People tend to give it a wide berth (which leads to a crap atmos) but for games like this I love it.

[andeeeee]

usually get butterflys before playing them fookers , but well chilled tonight , probably the red wine .

[all_funkt_up]

I am bang up for it. Which is unusual, because the anticipation and excitement is usually drowned out by an inner fear and a feeling that everything's not going to be alright.

But I feel calm and excited above all.

Is that a goos sign?

[andeeeee]

must be a goos sign , we are a team in crisis

[andeeeee]

what time you in the ground tomorrow ( i know its today)

[all_funkt_up]

Bag of arse.

[all_funkt_up]

I find getting stuffed like has happened today, hard to take. Im sick of going on about us being unlucky to lose or bemoaning our lack of luck.

They looked weak in several areas, Van Der Sar was rocky as fuck, they didnt look amazing going forward - but that said, they have 3 points tonight and that's what football's about.

Doesnt matter how you score as long as you end up with 3 points.

[all_funkt_up]

Oh and for the record, before anyone comes on with the Sky Sports "Rafa needs to go because he's spent millions" arguement - lets put this into perspective. Here's the relative values of the players that lined up on the pitch today.

Rooney £25 million
Ferdinand £19 million
Carrick £17 million
Ronaldo £12.5 million
Hargreaves £20 million
Nani £18 million est?
Anderson £18 million est?
Tevez £30 million total est?

Now look at our top signings

Torres £21 million
Babel £11 million
Mascherano potentially £17 million - currently on loan.

[christianu]

Isn't his net spending only like 20-25m too this season?

The team you have isn't good enough to win the title though, I think when Arsenal played you at your ground that was more apparent than today.

Plus you have City on yours and Chelsea's tail now

[all_funkt_up]

Originally Posted by christianu

Isn't his net spending only like 20-25m too this season?

Yeah about that. I think we will win the Prem when we spend Premiership money.

Perhaps he made his subs a bit late - Kuyt clearly wasnt having a good game and Riise was his usual self unfortunately.

Patience is key I fear this season.

Thing now is, he has a tricky decision to make. Does he put out a shit team on Wednesday because the Carling Cup is shit anyway? Or, does he go with the big guns at Stamford Bridge to try and salvage something from the week.

Rock and a hard place. To lose 3 out of 4 games would get the press and some (shortsighted) fans on his back.But to go out there with a strong team and possibly get players injured with Pompey at the weekend, could equally incur the wrath of fans.

I dont envy the chap at the moment.

[ONEDUNME]

The biggest mystery of them all is why anyone should want to play Harry Kewel. EVER!

He's fuckin garbage. Having him out for 3/4 of the season and bringing him back for the Champions League final is bad enough but what the fuck does anyone see in him.

He's had two decent games in about six years.

Is rafa shagging that horse faced bitch from Emmerdale or is he just trying to put him in the shop window (and hoping he'll stay fit for more than two games)

One of the worst players in Premiership history and with players like that starting you have no hope of ever winning the Prem. Sorry.

[all_funkt_up]

He's looked alright actually ODM since his 15 month lay-off. Saw him in the reserves then against Blackburn, had a good couple of games in the CL and was MOTM against Marseille midweek. He's on a free in the summer, so its not a case of him being put in the shop window. Harry has been really trying of late, probably because he wants a new contract. However I am of the opinion that even if he nets 30 goals from now until May, there's no fucking way he should be getting a new deal.

See, the problem is that we dont have the money to spend on players like Man U and Chelsea. They need wingers so they splash out on Nani and Malouda - buying quality - because they can. We have less to spend and so end up with a couple of players with potential, like Babel and Leto.

I think it's needs must at the moment for us.

[all_funkt_up]

He's rubbish - sack him.

Rafael Benitez has reaffirmed his status as one of the best managers on the planet after it was revealed that he has been shortlisted for the UEFA Coach of the Year award.

The Reds boss has been recognised for his achievements on the European stage after he led Liverpool to their second Champions League final in three seasons back in May.

The Spaniard will battle it out for the award with compatriot Juande Ramos, Manchester United boss Sir Slex Ferguson, England's Fabio Capello and AC Milan's Carlo Ancelotti.

But it'll come as no surprise to Reds fans that Benitez isn't the only Liverpool representative up for a UEFA award, with Pepe Reina in the running for the goalkeeper gong, Jamie Carragher and Daniel Agger in the defender category and Steven Gerrard up for best midfielder.