Club v Country - The Gerrard debate

[all_funkt_up]

There's an interesting club v country debate going on at the moment, concerning Steve Gerrard and his broken toe.

Rafa is keen to rest Gerrard until his toe has fully healed. McLaren, keen to save his own skin, wants to play Gerrard - broken toe or not.

Given that he clearly isnt fit and has missed our last 2 matches, is it wrong of Rafa to want his star man rested? McLaren's interest is in the short term. He wants to win the next 2 games and isnt looking any further ahead than that.

I dont want my player to risk himself and his future health for England. Especially given that if Gerrard further aggrivates his injury, Liverpool Football Club and Athletic Grounds Limited pick up the bill for his £100k a week wages.

The Michael Owen saga really pissed me off actually. He got injured for England and was out for a season. Yet the bulk of his wages was paid by Newcastle. If the FA want to properly compensate clubs when the players get injured playing for the national team, then in my opinion that is when they can start throwing their weight around and "demanding" a player pulls on the jersey.

Fucking ginger, half manc cunt.

With the stakes so high at club level these days - who should have the final say?

[all_funkt_up]

England may defy Reds on Gerrard

Gerrard fractured his toe against Toulouse in the Champions League
England v Israel
Wembley Stadium
Saturday, 8 September
Kick-off: 1700 BST
Live coverage on BBC One, BBC Radio 5live & the BBC Sport website

England have not ruled out the possibility of giving Steven Gerrard an injection so he can play in Saturday's Euro 2008 qualifier against Israel.

Gerrard has a broken toe and Reds boss Rafa Benitez says he does not want the influential midfielder to have a jab.

But England coach Steve McClaren says Gerrard is keen to play on Saturday and will have an injection if necessary.

"We're leaving it as late as possible but we want Steven on the field and we want him ready to play," said McClaren.


News conference: England boss Steve McClaren

"We will liaise with Liverpool and we will do nothing to put the player at risk, but we will also go a lot on how Steven feels and what he wants."



Gerrard had an injection to enable him to play for Liverpool against Chelsea on 19 August and Benitez said it took him "four or five" days to get over it.

McClaren insisted he would not do anything that would have a long-term negative effect on Gerrard, but his main concern at the moment is beating Israel.

That means he is prepared to risk losing Gerrard for the game against Russia on Wednesday by playing him on Saturday.

And the England boss said there were plenty of precedents for giving him a jab.

"You look and in some cases, if there's no great risk, then fine," said the England coach.

Frank Lampard is having intensive treatment with Chelsea and we have said he might have a chance of playing in the second game

England boss Steve McLaren

"John Terry and Frank Lampard had broken toes in pre-season and were taking injections.

"I have known it at club level where it would be just too painful to play (without the injection) but there's no risk of further injury if you have one."

McClaren's midfield options are limited because England regular Lampard is definitely out of the Israel game because of a thigh injury.

It was expected he would definitely miss the Russia game as well but it now appears his injury is not as serious as first thought.

"Frank is having intensive treatment with Chelsea and we have said he might have a chance of playing in the second game," said McClaren.

"It is still a far-out possibility at this moment but he is doing everything he can to be available."

Everton defender Joleon Lescott took part in his first England training session on Tuesday, while recalled striker Emile Heskey was involved for the first time in three years.





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[rcgills]

There was a similar problem over here in Spain with the Eurobasket tournament which started this week. One of their top players, Garbajosa, who plays in the NBA for Toronto, was injured and Toronto didn't want him playing in the Eurobasket. In the end the Spanish Federation (as I understand it) had to take out some kind of extra insurance policy to ensure that if he got injured, there would be compensation for Toronto, and so Toronto then agreed to let him go.

[all_funkt_up]

From an England point of view, if we cant beat Israel at home, with or without Gerrard, its a poor show in my books.

Speaks volumes about McLaren as a manager IMO. Surely a midfield of:

SWP...Hargreaves...Carrick...Cole

.....should be good enough to beat Spurs.

[Wittmann 44]

If the FA want to properly compensate clubs when the players get injured playing for the national team, then in my opinion that is when they can start throwing their weight around and "demanding" a player pulls on the jersey.

Agree totally. He who pays the piper should definitely have the final say here. Liverpool bear all the risk for very little reward. Let the FA bulk up on their insurance.

I’m not sure how playing with a broken toe and pumped full of pain killers would get the best out of Gerrard in any event. Surely if he can’t feel any pain in the toe which is presumably what the injection does then how the hell would he notice if he is doing further injury to it? Its unfortunate that it looks like both himself and Lampard are out but isn’t part of what McClown is paid for to have a Plan B ?

Also agree if England fail to beat Israel with or without Gerrard then it’s a pretty poor reflection on the strength in depth of the team.
Personally speaking I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Israel pick up a point. The team looks a bit of a mess at the moment and McLClaren is 45 poor minutes away from the crowd turning on him in a big way again.

[all_funkt_up]

England never fail to disappoint. Beckham has been fucked in the last 2 tournaments yet we still played him. He was fucked against Germany and is now out for a month or so when he should have been resting. Its like the FA and the England management team never learn their lessons.

Surely the chance of Gerrard aggrivating his existing injury or getting a new one are hightened if he plays on Saturday. He needs rest.

Playing injured players does not do them or England any good.

[crowie]

If he isn't fit to play for club then he isn't fit to play for country. If Liverpool had a game this coming Saturday would he be playing? Highly unlikely by the sounds of it so why should he then be playing for England.

The FA's have too much weight and influence in these matters. This rule about not being able to play the next again weekends fixtures if you missed the midweek game is bollocks IMO. If it works that way it should also work in the reverse in that if he missed the weekends games then he shouldn't be considered for the coming international games?

The national FA's have everything in their favour - they get first shout on the player but don't pay his wages, thats not right.

Considering Gerrard has already missed some game, Liverpool feel that he isn't ready then surely the obvious action for Gerrard to become fully fit is another week of rest and recuperation. Forcing him into some game when he is not fully fit is an accident waiting to happen. Surely a fully fit player will be better than a not fully fit player?

Gerrard should take the decision himself and declare that he is not fully fit, and pull out of the squad. Those extra few days rest between now and the next fixtures could be the difference between this injury going away and remaining as a "niggle" between now and Xmas or whenever.

Of course Gerrard won't pull out of the squad but in that case Liverpool, his employers who pay his salary, and whom I sure have a very competent set of medical staff, should make the decision for him.


Anyway, in light of Emile being back, surely Carlton Palmer could be called up as an entirely adequate replacement